by Massimo Pigliucci
About Rationally Speaking
Rationally Speaking is a blog maintained by Prof. Massimo Pigliucci, a philosopher at the City University of New York. The blog reflects the Enlightenment figure Marquis de Condorcet's idea of what a public intellectual (yes, we know, that's such a bad word) ought to be: someone who devotes himself to "the tracking down of prejudices in the hiding places where priests, the schools, the government, and all long-established institutions had gathered and protected them." You're welcome. Please notice that the contents of this blog can be reprinted under the standard Creative Commons license.
Monday, January 28, 2013
When false dichotomies are neither false, nor dichotomous
by Massimo Pigliucci
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Massimo,
ReplyDeleteI take your statement, "values can be thought of as the ethical equivalent of theories in science," to mean that there's an empirical component to value claims. If it is claimed that education is valuable, for example, the truth of this claim depends at least in part upon the truth of empirical assumptions about what education brings about. I think this view is true enough, but I don't think it can inferred from this that there's isn't a clear distinction between values and facts as such (which is the point I take you to be making, though I could be wrong). It suggests only that there's an empirical component to value claims and actual instances of valuing.
As I see it the basic philosophical question about value is that of what it means to value something, or for something to have value. Now while a particular instance of valuing something, or something being valuable, or a question of value, and so on, may depend on empirical beliefs/facts, what it means to value something or for something to be valuable has little to do with empirical facts. It's on this conceptual level that a line in the sand between value and fact can be drawn, even if our actual practice of valuing is bound up with empirical beliefs or facts. While I think we can say that the line between value claims and empirical claims can be blurry, I don't think we can say that the line between value and fact is blurry. How does this relate to your view?
As to thinking about about value, in my view talk about value is a kind of oblique talk about human desires. To understand values I think we must understand how the word 'value' and its cognates function in language. As to Quine, I think a flaw in his philosophy is that he had little room for the sort of conceptual unpacking that is philosophy's stock in trade.
A thought experiment I like do is to think of possible persons, or what biologically comes close, on other planets (like Rorty's Antipodeans). One might think that their mathematicians have developed a mathematics much like ours, say with Pythagoras' Theorem by a different name. (Maybe. Mycielski's "Locally Finite Theories" - jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2273942 - defines a mathematics isomorphic to our "standard" one but without infinite objects.) But is their "moral logic" the same as ours, or is it contingent on their own evolutionary, biological, and cultural development?
ReplyDeletePhilip,
Delete>But is their "moral logic" the same as ours, or is it contingent on their own evolutionary, biological, and cultural development?<
Fascinating question. I agree with Massimo's view on this, stated below, though on a different basis. If the Antipodeans have a morality then it must be formally like ours, i.e. meet our conditions of being a morality. This is only because otherwise we would not call it a morality and not because logic is a culture-independent universal. I'm not sure what "culture-independent universal" means. I think logic is just a contingent aspect of contingent human language and that the aliens could easily parse reality in such a radically different way that our conceptual distinctions would be useless in trying to understand them, i.e., the aliens might be Hegelians. I'm kidding on a literal level but not on a metaphorical level. I think humans could have conceived the would in a fundamentally different way - such that our notion of logic would make no sense - so if you add a different biology too ...
Perhaps the Antipodeans' morality (if not their mathematics) could utilize a paraconsistent logic.
Deletee.g. "A Paraconsistent Solution to the Problem of Moral Dilemmas" Helen Bohse; South African Journal of Philosophy; 2005, Vol. 24 Issue 2
Re: Sam Harris, fact/value, etc. -
ReplyDelete"...for if, from the point of view of the brain, believing 'the sun is a star' is importantly similar to believing 'cruelty is wrong,' how can we say that scientific and ethical judgments having nothing in coming?" (The Moral Landscape, pg.122)
The quote above is from his chapter on Belief where he argues about the physiology of belief in particular and where, presumably, neuroscience can come to the rescue. Although he definitely wants to use fMRI results as evidence that there is no fact/value gulf (i.e., values are facts to be discovered/confirmed/justified by science), it seems to me that he is both overlooking the nature of language, and setting up a needless straw man.
The words 'sun', 'star', 'cruelty' and 'wrong' are all human constructions. The sun is a star because we say it is. Likewise, we define certain actions as cruel based on our feelings about them (essentially); and the same goes for the notion that we think these actions are wrong. Of course, a star has definite (human-chosen) characteristics that allow us to call certain blindingly bright celestial phenomena stars; and the same can be said for the phenomenon of cruelty: when we (empirically) come upon a certain set of pre-chosen characteristics, we call it cruelty. So it's not 'intrinsically' true that the sun is a star or that cruelty is wrong; but on a certain level it is 'objectively' (or at least empirically) true...
And I don't think many people are claiming that scientific and ethical judgments have *nothing* in common; your post is a case in point.
And the fact that a certain part of our brain (i.e., the MPFC) is responsible for 'processing' beliefs - no matter what the content - doesn't mean that those beliefs are true, objective, or amount to real knowledge...
Paul,
ReplyDelete> If it is claimed that education is valuable, for example, the truth of this claim depends at least in part upon the truth of empirical assumptions about what education brings about. <
Correct. I defend the right to universal access to education because I think — on empirical grounds — that it leads to a more functional society and more meaningful individual human lives. Of course, the fact that I value the latter two outcomes is more removed from empirical evidence, and it begins to approach what you call a desire. But even desires can be uncovered empirically, right?
Still, I want to make clear that I am no Sam Harris: I do not thin that values collapse into empirical data. But I’m not sure that we can (or should) always draw lines somewhere in the sand, instead of acknowledging that the fact/value distinction sometimes is sharper and sometimes a bit more porous.
Philip,
> is their "moral logic" the same as ours, or is it contingent on their own evolutionary, biological, and cultural development? <
I would say that the Antipodeans would have a different morality, insofar as their biology and culture are different. But how they logically develop their moral discourse would have to be similar, since I think logic is a culturally independent universal.
Massimo: I do not thin that values collapse into empirical data.
DeleteBut aren't values (or moral beliefs) more or less psychological (and presumably neurological) facts? Even if so, then can still conflict with one another, in which case I think we still need the tools of rational/analytical philosophy in order to test their coherence and to adjust them, so as to bring them into some kind of balance (or reflective equilibrium).
PS: When I say "need", I mean that in a pragmatic sense. We may be forced to live with some problems (e.g. paradoxes), whereas others beg for some kind of working solution in order that we may survive and in some sense flourish.
Delete"since I think logic is a culturally independent universal."
ReplyDeleteTrue if you consider others such as Eastern logic to be illogical.
> What’s empirical evidence got to do with the concept of bachelorhood? Nothing, as it turns out, as Quine himself readily agreed, but he thought that analytical truths like that one are “epistemologically insignificant.” <
ReplyDeleteI must say, I laughed when I read that. From now on, whenever my argument is falling apart, I'll dismiss any objections as "epistemologically irrelevant"!
Baron,
ReplyDelete> True if you consider others such as Eastern logic to be illogical. <
Actually, a lot of logics developed in India and China have significant overlap or similarities with “Western” logic. But of course there is also a lot of illogicity, both in the East and West...
mufi,
I agree with the rest of your comment, but:
> aren't values (or moral beliefs) more or less psychological (and presumably neurological) facts? <
Well, no. Values and beliefs are *instantiated* by particular psychological and neurological facts, but I wouldn’t say they are identical with those facts (from now on I’ll call this the “Harris fallacy”... ;-)
Again, take the analogy of math: thinking about the number 4, say, certainly is made possible by a particular psychological condition, and it is instantiated by a particular neurological pattern. But it would be really strange to say that the neurological pattern *is* the n. 4.
Massimo: I would put it this way: For the purposes of actually doing math or morality, one (probably) gains nothing by pointing out the psychological & neurological basis of those procedures.
DeleteNonetheless, I assume a dependency here. IOW, wipe out all humans (or sentient beings, capable of abstract thought) and I would bet that you wipe out all math and morality in the process.
Massimo, actually when I realize that all logic stems from the way biological forms must make predictive choices, I agree with the idea that it's a culturally independent universal.
ReplyDeleteInteresting post! I've been wanting to learn more about Quine for a while.
ReplyDelete>and then there are truths that are somewhere in the middle (Quine’s famous example of F = ma).
F = ma as an analytic truth? It seems pretty synthetic and a posteriori to me (describes a regularity in the world, is not a consequence of stipulated axioms). What's the argument for it's being analytic at all? Merely that it's written in algebra?
>As Darwin himself famously acknowledged in a letter to a friend, “How odd it is that anyone should not see that all observation must be for or against some view if it is to be of any service!” That is, there is no such thing as “just the facts,” even in science.
I'm not sure if Darwin was really speaking to the present discussion in that quote. I take him to be pointing out that facts are useless except insofar as they confirm or disconfirm some hypothesis, not that there are no facts independent of theories. On my reading, Darwin would be happy to say that there is, for example, an objective fact of the matter about how many white hairs are on an average zebra's rump (whether we have a theory or not) - it's just that that fact is "of no service" unless it serves as evidence for one or another hypothesis.
Ian,
DeleteRegarding 'F=ma', I think the idea is that this is true by definition ('F' just means 'ma') but is such that it represents a way of thinking about reality that could be revised: in the future we might regard that whole way of thinking about things as flawed.
Nick,
Indeed. In taking empirical relevance as a condition of epistemic significance, Quine seems to be begging the question.
F = ma as an analytic truth? It seems pretty synthetic and a posteriori to me (describes a regularity in the world, is not a consequence of stipulated axiom).
DeleteI see it as clearly analytic.
What's the argument for it's being analytic at all?
I see it as the technical definition of force, and therefore as prior to any possibility of having empirical data about forces.
> I see it as the technical definition of force, and therefore as prior to any possibility of having empirical data about forces. <
DeleteThat is my understanding also. While undoubtedly important, F=ma is a definition, not an empirically testable hypothesis.
Agree with Ian, I thought this was a great post and I've been trying to gain a better understanding of Quine's "Two Dogma's" for a while.
ReplyDeleteI concur with pretty much everything written in the article, but I just wanted to touch on the idea of foundationalism. I know from epistemology we have as the three main theories of justification coherentism, foundationalism, and infinitism. As far as infinitism goes, I have looked into it and it seems to be a pretty implausible idea with few supporters (at first glance anyway). That leaves coherentism and foundationalism, and I have to say I think the latter is much more intuitive in nature. When I think about logic, mathematics, and the physical sciences, it seems very clear that there are foundational notions or laws at work in each of these disciplines. These axioms, primitive notions, or fundamental laws have been gleaned by careful intuition, observation, and reasoning. The fact that they are so powerful at explaining our world should, over time (and as each new experiment and prediction born out from these areas come to fruition), make us believe that they are indeed the right foundations. Of course, as our knowledge deepens, there may be new findings that require slight modification, and adjustments can be made that retain much of the original structure of these foundations while incorporating the new findings.
I feel like this is the way things have been going, with mathematics and logic seen as deeply fundamental in a certain sense, eventually spilling over into mathematical physics and other scientific disciplines and aiding in determining the correct foundational principles in those areas.
Coherentism and the idea of a 'web of belief' are nice ideas that make some sense, but I feel like there has to be something holding that web up. It can't stand alone without a firm foundation, and indeed the 'web of belief' that currently exists looks like it rests on a sound bedrock.
Any thoughts?
Ah a refreshing post!!
ReplyDeleteI'm slightly hurt by the use of Quine as a stepping stone, since I'm currently having a serious Bromance with his collected works... But your point is well-made, and hopefully well-taken.
I find that people OVERSTEP REASON going both ways:
(1) Some want an artificial severing of dichotomies; tear the world into metaphysical pieces.
(2) Some want an artificial cesspool of all useful distinctions.
Quine is GREAT help for calling out (1), and pointing at difficencies in theories that hinge too heavily on UN-ANALYZED "A priori" or "analytic" truths.
Thanks for yet another useful and lucid text, Massimo!
ReplyDeleteIan,
ReplyDelete> F = ma as an analytic truth? <
Well, you’ve seen some of the responses to this query already. I must admit to your same puzzlement, but I think that Quine would indeed argue that since it’s an equation that defines a physical property, it is (supposed to be) analytical. And then of course would use your puzzlement to argue, see? there ain’t no sharp distinction between synthetic and analytic...
> I'm not sure if Darwin was really speaking to the present discussion in that quote. <
I didn’t mean to attribute to Darwin prescience about 20th century philosophy of science. But he was writing in the context of the then ongoing “great induction debate” about the proper way to conduct science (with J.S. Mill and William Whewell on opposite sides), and the point, I think, is germane: there is an infinity of “facts,” and they only become relevant (“scientific facts”) when imbued in some type of theoretical framework. Which is close to what Quine would later argue.
pete,
ReplyDelete> These axioms, primitive notions, or fundamental laws have been gleaned by careful intuition, observation, and reasoning. The fact that they are so powerful at explaining our world should, over time make us believe that they are indeed the right foundations <
Well, it depends on what one means by "foundation." Yes, few doubt that many notions in math, logic, or for that matter science are not here to stay, including Quine. But foundationalism here means the search for some kind of absolutely indubitable rock bottom starting point on top of which all knowledge can be built. Hume's problem of induction (for science) and the failure of the Russell-Whitehead attempt to establish logical bases for math (together with Godel's theorems) pretty much took care of that. So the idea of a web is a powerful alternative, and it's advantage is precisely that it doesn't have to "hang" from a specific indubitable hook. Anything in the web, including basic math and logic, can in theory be reexamined and replaced if we have reasons to think that we have better alternatives, as unlikely as that actually is to happen in practice.
I see, and yes I do agree that we probably won't be able to ever find absolutely indubitable foundations for our knowledge.
DeleteThat being said, I think that as our scientific and mathematical theories progress, we begin to develop fundamental notions that are improved as time goes on. As you mention, Godel did show that we can never have a complete foundation for mathematics, but this does not mean that we can approach the complete set over time by continually improving our knowledge of mathematics and discovering new axioms to add to the original list.
In much the same way, our physical theories begin to show dependencies on things like symmetry and conservation principles that begin to stay more or less constant even with the development of newer theories. So maybe that is how I should define my foundationalism: The idea that there are true, fundamental properties of existence that we can uncover/approach (never with 100% certainty though) over time through the aid of science and rational inquiry.
More on isms, on religionism and scientism...
ReplyDeleteSince the early 1900’s ALL “science” has been taken over by the Technology Culture of the religious Americans, represented by the trade-union-church AAAS. Plain and simple. There has not been any science in the world since then except “religious-American-science”.
On the blissful religious science ignorance…:
USA-World Science Hegemony Is Science Blind
Since the early 2000s I have been posting many articles on science items surveyed and analyzed by me, without religious background-concepts. I have been doing this because I was deeply disturbed by the religiosity of the 1848-founded AAAS trade-union and by the consequent religious background-tint of its extensive “scientific” publications and activities.
On my next birthday I’ll be 88-yrs old. I know that I’m deeply engaged in a Don Quixotic mission-war to extricate-free the USA and world Science from the clutches and consequences of the religious-trade-union-church AAAS, adopted strangely by the majority of scientifically ignorant religious god-trusting Americans and by their most other humanity following flocks…
But I am sincerely confident that only thus it is feasible and possible to embark on a new, rational, Human culture (Scientism) and on new more beneficial and effective technology courses for humanity…
Dov Henis (comments from 22nd century)
http://universe-life.com/
Fascinating article,
ReplyDeleteIn reading it I was reminded of some quotes from Neils Bohr.
"Two sorts of truth: profound truths recognized by the fact that the opposite is also a profound truth, in contrast to trivialities where opposites are obviously absurd."
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth."
and
"How wonderful that we have met with a paradox. Now we have some hope of making progress."
I am in the corner with Ladyman & Ross that there are at root no fundamental things. So for me an inter-connected web of relations seem like a good way to think about these issues. Of course just saying everything is related is not very useful either. I do think that recognition of the web foundation can prevent the types of errors that Harris and Krause make dismissing philosophy.
I read on science2.0 an article by Amir Aczel awhile back about a type of math that accounts for the excluded middle and relates to eastern philosophy and possibly quantum logic. I think it relates to this post so will post the link:
http://www.science20.com/greatest_science_mysteries/buddha_topoi_and_quantum_gravity-93336
Thanks for the post Massimo, I will need to read it a few more times to adjust my thoughts.
That Amir Aczel article cited was one of the best ever.
DeleteI loved this article. But having said that, I myself find it difficult to distinguish between facts and theories. Evolution, Special Relativity and all are easily understood as theories. But what about the idea that humans need oxygen to survive? Is it a fact or a theory? Massimo, please expand on this in issue in future articles. Because I find it very confusing.
ReplyDeleteWhat I think is, the idea that humans need oxygen to survive is a theory. Because you need a lot of concepts to understand what oxygen means. Usually we say, we need oxygen to survive, and that's a fact. But if that too is a theory, I wonder what facts means in the first place. I'd say, whatever is, is a fact. Is the idea that we need oxygen to survive a fact, or is it a theory we developed to explain a fact? I think it's a theory. But then, what exactly is the fact there?
Then it gets even more complex. If the idea that humans need oxygen is a theory, then the idea that my bicycle has mass must also be a theory. The idea of atoms is certainly a theory, beyond which we have already moved. Then what about humans who are made from atoms. Is the idea that humans exist a fact, or a theory like the idea that humans need oxygen to survive? Well, if oxygen thing too is theory, humans are theory too.
Whatever is, is a fact. But even if there are facts (I believe there are. Objective reality exists), we can't know about any of them without forming a concept about them. So all knowledge is concept. All knowledge is theory.
I know this is a dangerous path to travel. It's the Kant->Hegal-> Heidegger->Derrida path. But it bugs me that I can't step outside myself and see reality without the use of my mind. In fact it bugs me thatI can't step outside myself and look at me.And since I can't step outside myself, it seems that all I can do is model my experience in a way that allows me to make accurate predictions (another concept), and based on that accuracy call my theories true. So truth is how my theories according to another concept I have. Then how can I justify my belief that my model of reality is how reality actually works? Why not use some other truth criteria?
I don't know what I'm talking about. It just bugs me.
brainoil,
DeleteI can assure you that you ain't going Derrida! That said, the sort of considerations you put forth are exactly why I said that the fact/theory distinction is real, but a matter of degrees. Take your example of breathing: it is a fact that human beings breath air. It is a theory (albeit a very well substantiated one!) that what we breadth is (in part) oxygen. The same, say, with atoms: it is a fact that we are made of material substance; it is a theory that we are made of atoms that are themselves made in certain ways. And of course all these theories are scientific, which means they are based on observations and experiments (i.e., "facts"). I hope this helps!
Yes. But I can't help feeling that something's amiss here. What makes human beings breathe air a fact, and what they breathe is oxygen a theory? The difference isn't clear to me. Rocks don'tknow that humans breathe, as far as we know. Animals don't know humans breathe air, even though they have sense organs, as far as we know. Only we know we breathe. Why? I think it's because we can make concepts. We take in the sense data and form concepts about them. That's why I think that one can argue, human beings breathing air is not a fact, but rather a concept created to explain a fact. So I think it's not that easy to argue that human beings breathing air is a fact, and humans needing oxygen to air is theory.
DeleteSee the fundamenatal problem I see here is that we can't step outside our minds and observe the world. We take the external reality for granted, even though we don't have knock-down argument for solipsism (if anyone has one, I'd be happy to know). But even if the external world exists, it's not as if human consciousness is a mirror of external reality. It forms concepts. It takes data from sense organs (data that are erroneous from time to time, apparently), and it orders them, catalogues and unifes them using concpets that it creates.
What I think the postmodernists do wrong is that from here they jump to there is external objective reality, and that you can believe anything you like. That doesn't seem right. 1 sheep + 1 sheep always looks like 2 sheeps to me, so if you're going to pay for only 1 sheep when you're taking 2 sheeps, I'd feel cheated, quite rightly. But still, I'm not convinced that humans breathing air is a fact, and humans needing oxygen to survive is a theory.
I think everying is connected to some degree,but as Massimo indicated with the moon orbit example degree matters, and some things are so loosely connected they can be practically ignored. The Aczel article I linked to seems descibes a topos mathematics that accounts for the "nearness" of relations rather than being rooted in set theory.
DeleteThe concept seems promising to me.
"it is a fact that we are made of material substance'
ReplyDeleteHmmm...It seems like 'facts' emerge and are perceived by what I've heard Dennett refer to as the 'Manifest Image'. Yet in Physics aren't atoms,fermions, bosons & fields considered more ontologically fundamental then material substance? I suppose the limited access of the 'Manifest Image' requires theories to gain a more truthful 'ontological image'.
I think what is important is to aknowledge that 'facts' emerge from a web of relations.
What is a manifest image?
Delete"What is a manifest image?"
DeleteThe term was used often in the "moving naturalism forward" conference that Massimo took part in. I wasn't familiar with the source so I just looked it up. It was introduced by Wilrid Sellars as "the framework in terms of which man came to be aware of himself as man-in-the world". It is how we "ordinarily" observe and think about the world, Sellars contrasts it with "the scientific image".