tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post8531182401129879383..comments2023-10-10T08:02:18.073-04:00Comments on Rationally Speaking: The Shape of State and SoulUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-33862824716779177362013-05-28T19:32:00.879-04:002013-05-28T19:32:00.879-04:00Oh, I too understand his reasoning within his phil...Oh, I too understand his reasoning within his philosophical structure.Gadflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13075757287807731373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-57912303846395473092013-05-28T12:32:56.335-04:002013-05-28T12:32:56.335-04:00Also interesting is the difference between somethi...Also interesting is the difference between something like "practical intelligence" and learned skills and accumulated knowledge, and whether practical intelligence is largely a predisposition or largely learned. <br /><br />I also don't think we educators don't take into account the different tolerances for cognitive load of individual learners. Steve Neumannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07711295082644210782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-82459809507990957082013-05-28T12:28:30.992-04:002013-05-28T12:28:30.992-04:00I agree. And I also think that, though online lear...I agree. And I also think that, though online learning has some benefit, there's no substitute for one-on-one instructor/learner interaction. Steve Neumannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07711295082644210782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-67954614327349972982013-05-28T12:24:56.913-04:002013-05-28T12:24:56.913-04:00Agreed. Agreed. Steve Neumannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07711295082644210782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-35823367858520361992013-05-28T12:23:51.966-04:002013-05-28T12:23:51.966-04:00Well I certainly follow Plato's reasoning in r...Well I certainly follow Plato's reasoning in rejecting art (and poets in particular), but of course I reject his premises (ie, the Forms). I think highly of the arts (poetry and literature in particular) and culture in general in society. Fortunately, I don't think anyone in a position of power is aligned with Plato's feeling toward art; or if they are, it's probably not because they've read Plato. Steve Neumannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07711295082644210782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-86570917535275100432013-05-28T11:18:06.707-04:002013-05-28T11:18:06.707-04:00I am so sad to see our liberal ideal of public edu...I am so sad to see our liberal ideal of public education being eroded by those who worship the profit motive, and see humans as not worthwhile unless they are trained in school to do a specific job.<br /><br />We educators do our students a horrible disservice when we lecture at them ad nauseum, or sit them in front of a screen where they are pelted with things to memorize and test on. The real learning comes when they can test their thinking in the crucible of an interactive real-life classroom with real-life peers and a real-life professor or teacher who can help them elevate their most fundamental skills ... critical thinking, articulating, and communicating. These skills are more important than the subject that serves as a platform for skill practice, whether it be philosophy or finance.Fenwayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04373414899397001517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-13391368233193522402013-05-28T11:13:53.720-04:002013-05-28T11:13:53.720-04:00I think that we educators lose sight of the "...I think that we educators lose sight of the "skills" part of education when we lecture ad nauseum and when we embrace on-line "learning." When students are engaged with themselves, their classmates, and a thinking and interacting professor or teacher, they have the opportunity to challenge their ideas and practice their skills. This is the important part of "becoming." It is not cramming the head full of assorted facts, testing on them, and promptly forgetting them, having never internalized the ideas behind them in the first place. <br /><br />I am so sad to see liberal public education being undercut by those who believe that the only education is the education that results in a job for which that person was trained in school.Fenwayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04373414899397001517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-6001771289172079672013-05-26T00:14:04.242-04:002013-05-26T00:14:04.242-04:00Finally,m one doesn't have to look at The Repu...Finally,m one doesn't have to look at The Republic to know Plato was an anti-democrat. Nor does one have to go to the effort of Izzy Stone and learn classical Greek and write a book to that end. (Izzy overstated some things, but he was broadly on the mark.)<br /><br />Besides Plato setting up straw men through the mouthpiece of his figurehead, Socrates, it's clear that the both of them (even though Aristophanes called him a Sophist) actually opposed the real Sophists precisely because, to anyone who could afford to pay, they were democratizing the elements of classical education needed to get ahead in society. After all, only someone of independent means could afford to educate people without charge. And, only people without need to work themselves, or have their children to do so, could afford the time for such study, often.Gadflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13075757287807731373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-24267199268130038952013-05-26T00:07:07.645-04:002013-05-26T00:07:07.645-04:00To add to my previous comment, education should al...To add to my previous comment, education should always be humanistic. Philosophy is part of such education, including the need for teaching critical thinking skills that many social conservatives like Rick Perry sneer at. (And, unless narrowly confined to the needs of the business world, many modern CEOs probably sneer at them, too.)<br /><br />But, philosophy is not all that makes up a humanistic education. The fine arts, literature, and other things do, too. Of course, looking beyond what Plato considered to be philosophy, those things today are at least tangential to the philosophical field of aesthetics.Gadflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13075757287807731373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-92078845674094044102013-05-26T00:03:36.404-04:002013-05-26T00:03:36.404-04:00Vasco, many social psychology studies, though, say...Vasco, many social psychology studies, though, say that parents are NOT the primary nurtural influence on our temperament, attitudes, etc., as children. I think such claims are somewhat overrated, but not entirely so. To the degree our parents may be our primary educators, it may often be subconscious. Or it may be an attitude of rejecting their values, attitudes, etc.<br /><br />Steve: Plato had other problems, such as rejecting poets and (let's say) by extension, artists in general. In a day and age when corporatized education at the collegiate, or even high school, level, sneers more and more at the fine arts in particular and many aspects of the liberal arts in general, and K-12 school districts cut such offerings during budget tightenings, Plato's antipathy toward the world of arts, even though I understand where within his world view it comes from, is saddening and depressing.Gadflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13075757287807731373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-12713389722410988522013-05-25T02:20:21.230-04:002013-05-25T02:20:21.230-04:00I am reminded of Pierre Bourdieu's idea of cul...I am reminded of Pierre Bourdieu's idea of cultural capital here. It is curious to think how our inate temperaments mesh with our environments, having experienced parents who were violently opposed to education (Liverpool England) i have always been pleased about the existance of books. so i guess Mr. Gutenberg gets my vote.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254326948479779511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-62932933081799478052013-05-24T06:55:12.458-04:002013-05-24T06:55:12.458-04:00I think that the parents (and family) have the pri...I think that the parents (and family) have the primary responsibility in the education. In this sense claiming that "family members" are indirect educators is reductive (in my view at least).<br /><br />However the family is part of the society, and different members from the society also take part in the educational process (teachers, …). Society can also give notoriety to some individuals (for a variety of reasons) that one may choose to emulate (the first ones to be emulated are the parents, that usually remain as references after childhood).<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05113406033301115509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-7035545839986529992013-05-24T01:54:07.585-04:002013-05-24T01:54:07.585-04:00Whats Missing
The only thing missing in education...Whats Missing<br /><br />The only thing missing in education is truth, Truth 101.<br />Socrates questioned the truth but sadly never answered it.<br />Do you know what truth is Steve?<br />Have you ever had a lesson on it, has anyone?<br />What about Justice 101, Equality 101, Unity 101 and Freedom 101? Truth is all the above. <br />Do you know that the value of truth is infinite?<br />Truth is!<br /><br />I think One day these valuable lessons of infinity will be taught and the truth shall set us free.<br /><br />Free at last...<br /><br />== MJAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01897595473268353450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-52802429350674903442013-05-23T17:47:17.534-04:002013-05-23T17:47:17.534-04:00Just to clarify, are you saying that my claim that...Just to clarify, are you saying that my claim that "family members" can be "indirect educator agent(s)" is reductive, absurd, etc.?<br /><br />If so, I would just say I had in mind two things when I wrote that: 1) I was primarily thinking of siblings, extended family, etc., who one might emulate in some way; and 2) even though one's parents ostensibly educate us, they do so primarily in light of morality; in terms of the identification and amplification of one's talents, I've found that too often parents direct their children, intentionally or unintentionally, in the talents the parents think they should develop.<br />Steve Neumannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07711295082644210782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-42175192622469047252013-05-23T11:58:03.141-04:002013-05-23T11:58:03.141-04:00Who Are Our Educators?
Our parents (or those they...Who Are Our Educators?<br /><br />Our parents (or those they trust to do it).<br /><br />I am afraid but family takes the most important part in the educational process of anyone (altough you chose to ignore it, it is extremely reductive, and absurd, to claim that it can be an indirect educator agent).<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05113406033301115509noreply@blogger.com