tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post6068300044024975927..comments2023-10-10T08:02:18.073-04:00Comments on Rationally Speaking: Barbara Bradley Hagerty does it again, unfortunatelyUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-67787259458282359362011-05-23T13:04:32.858-04:002011-05-23T13:04:32.858-04:00Hagerty did do a follow up on her story:
http://w...Hagerty did do a follow up on her story:<br /><br />http://www.npr.org/2011/05/23/136560695/doomsday-believers-cope-with-an-intact-world<br /><br />Imagine that, most believers contacted did not answer the phone. One said that judgment day had in fact happened, but in the spiritual realm.<br /><br />Camping, apparently, was "flabbergasted," but his organization is going to re-calculate the end of the world. So stay tuned...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099460671669064269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-49522477480448682142011-05-20T09:01:52.466-04:002011-05-20T09:01:52.466-04:00Incidentally, here is how the New York Times just ...Incidentally, here is how the New York Times just covered this story:<br /><br />http://goo.gl/Xi6Be<br /><br />This is the sort of tone that Hagerty completely missed.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099460671669064269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-67709678362311736752011-05-12T13:20:19.282-04:002011-05-12T13:20:19.282-04:00I think it would interesting to not only do follow...I think it would interesting to not only do follow up interviews on the 22nd but to actually report on what happens to Adrienne Martinez and her husband. Not just do an interview but follow her life and see what happens as a consequence of her delusions.LCShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06230899522753297278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-80167975584813640052011-05-11T12:46:35.252-04:002011-05-11T12:46:35.252-04:00I got the pamphlet in the street in Stockholm over...I got the pamphlet in the street in Stockholm over a month ago!!<br />check it here: <br />[IMG]http://i56.tinypic.com/675k76.jpg[/IMG]<br /><br />I'm amazed that Stockholmers are prioritized on Family Radio list of people to be "saved"!German Antoniohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15428194336615558631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-78145282796149548552011-05-09T21:28:33.434-04:002011-05-09T21:28:33.434-04:00I actually didn't think it was bad when I hear...I actually didn't think it was bad when I heard it. I think she was just reporting on these people, I never sensed at any point during her reporting that she was in any way lending credence to these nut cases. it was legitimate reporting of a seriously misguided group of people. As far a Fox, as someone that watches a lot of Fox and MSNBC, believe me, there's plenty of lunacy on both sides. One specializes in global warming denial and religion, the other in new age crap. I'm not sure which is worse.bennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00861699243677815489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-22068960842494901552011-05-09T17:30:45.539-04:002011-05-09T17:30:45.539-04:00Tragic? Not if Gilbert Gottfried has anything to s...Tragic? Not if Gilbert Gottfried has anything to say about it.Baron Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04138430918331887648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-54218738117162906132011-05-09T17:02:50.539-04:002011-05-09T17:02:50.539-04:00Probably I am making too big a deal of this, but I...Probably I am making too big a deal of this, but I hope we won't see a spike in suicides in the days following May 21st, when some of these deluded people realize they have not been chosen between the raptured, and are left to face the end of the world with the rest of us.<br /><br />If that happens, then what seems a big joke now will actually turn quite tragic.2euclidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06838933537652132199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-64918409706032386312011-05-09T07:11:13.483-04:002011-05-09T07:11:13.483-04:00I'm OK with this piece as long as Bradley Hagg...I'm OK with this piece as long as Bradley Haggerty interviews all of these people on May 22nd and asks tough questions about whether it was wise to forget about 401(k) and spend all their savings on the basis of loony Harold Camping predictions. I won't hold my breath though.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07073564722634869398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-40278149722691790292011-05-08T22:33:18.296-04:002011-05-08T22:33:18.296-04:00Nick, lalawawa,
I think you are being too charita...Nick, lalawawa,<br /><br />I think you are being too charitable to Hagerty, given the obvious pattern she has been engaged in for some time. At any rate, I bet you dollar to donut that she will not do a follow up piece on May 22nd...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099460671669064269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-51478718986823984012011-05-08T21:45:39.742-04:002011-05-08T21:45:39.742-04:00Now that I've read the whole piece (haven'...Now that I've read the whole piece (haven't listened to it, but I assume they are the same), I have to say I agree with some posters above who didn't think the report was that bad. Sure, I would have been more sarcastic and incisive, but that's just because I am not very nice sometimes. :-)<br /><br />That last line, specially, read like a final little parting jab at the whole thing: <b>On the other hand, he will presumably have lots of company.</b> (after Brown said he does not want to be here on May 22nd)J. Marcelo Alveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09967299561849915314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-33183871040791829482011-05-08T21:29:44.333-04:002011-05-08T21:29:44.333-04:00Baron,
I only referred to the constitutional rule ...Baron,<br />I only referred to the constitutional rule of separation between religio and state, mandating that the US as a public entity, and its organizations (such as public schools and, I presume, also public radios) do not sponsor any particular view about religion. <br />Of course, everybody has the right to express support for any view, religious or not, but not the US as such. You can defend whatever religious views you have, but not on a US public school, nor (I guess) through government-supported media. Perhaps even a public broadcaster may (conveivably) transmit news on current religious affairs, insofar as it does so as a report on news, not in a partisan view or advocating for certain religious views. <br />However, I repeat I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not an American citizen, so my comment was mainly a question addressed to those with more knowledge in these matters.Hector M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10008738285159771679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-84199583778801927362011-05-08T21:29:04.755-04:002011-05-08T21:29:04.755-04:00Wow, hadn't heard of this "prophecy"...Wow, hadn't heard of this "prophecy". My "misunderestimation" of the amount of stupid people never ends. It would be funny, except that such people also vote. Shudder.<br /><br />Anyway, would Brown and Haubert and co. please send me all their money, since they won't be needing it on May 22nd? I mean, since I'm not even a Christian, let alone a true one (whatever that is... well, silly me, of course that is whatever the person using the expression is)... I could use the dough in the ensuing 153 days.J. Marcelo Alveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09967299561849915314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-90615815290650565492011-05-08T21:12:37.383-04:002011-05-08T21:12:37.383-04:00I listened to the piece, I thought it was fair rep...I listened to the piece, I thought it was fair reporting. If I were the journalist, I would be very interested in doing the follow-up story. If she did an all-out hatchet job on this group in the first story she did on them, there's no way they would give her an interview for the follow-up story.lalawawahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01219154713603989499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-59313119584113322562011-05-08T17:40:04.897-04:002011-05-08T17:40:04.897-04:00@Hector
>I wonder whether NPR could not be sued...@Hector<br />>I wonder whether NPR could not be sued for infringing on the constitutional rule about church-state separation)<<br />How does what you see as a government sponsored entity discussing a religious view uncritically infringe upon that or any other religion's free exercise of their views?Baron Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04138430918331887648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-22008720601067891882011-05-08T17:01:08.359-04:002011-05-08T17:01:08.359-04:00PS: The guy on campus and his fliers:
http://pand...PS: The guy on campus and his fliers: <br />http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2010/07/lauri-lebo-blog.htmlNickMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04765417807335152285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-14220045558208638462011-05-08T17:00:40.042-04:002011-05-08T17:00:40.042-04:00"I listened to the piece and I thought it was..."I listened to the piece and I thought it was a fascinating and restrained look at people who share an irrational belief. Hagerty isn't promoting their view or saying anything about what she believes. She explored the motivations for this belief (the interview of the man who said it was less stressful to live as if the world were about to end was interesting) and she also pointed out that the minister promoting this irrational belief had been wrong in the past. What else was she supposed to do? Sneer at the deluded people? I like news stories that let me make up my own mind and this was one of them."<br /><br />I agree with all of this. I listened to the whole story and didn't have any negative reaction. Hagerty pointed out that Harold Camping did the same thing in 1994, which *completely discredits him*, and that everyone who has ever predicted the end of the world has been wrong. She probably didn't belabor the point even more, because she could safely assume that basically no one in the subtle & sophisticated NPR listeners would take any of this seriously (but perhaps not so safely, since Massimo seems to have missed it!). Here in San Francisco the pledge drive is on and the first line was "Well, that guy might think the world is ending, but we're planning to broadcast on May 22 and we need your pledges!"<br /><br />I have had problems with the uncriticalness of some of Hagerty's other reporting, but not on this piece. I think we are lucky that NPR decided to report on this bit of religious craziness, instead of ignoring it.<br /><br />"I do think the story is incomplete without a follow-up interview, however."<br /><br />Yes, I would LOVE to see the follow-up interviews. Here in Berkeley we're having a big End of the World party -- we have a follower of Harold Camping who has repeatedly fliered the life sciences building and stands on the quad every day with a countdown sign. We consider it free advertising for the party.NickMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04765417807335152285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-83040736300926232882011-05-08T16:38:53.953-04:002011-05-08T16:38:53.953-04:00I think there is no point in exposing or trying to...I think there is no point in exposing or trying to show the foolishness of this kind of "prophesies". The valid points, rationally speaking, are in my view just two:<br />1. That this sort of craziness is on NPR, a PUBLIC broadcaster that is paid with taxpayer's money and should at least be more neutral, and at best respect the separation of church and state, thus ceasing to promote specific religious beliefs (I am not American, nor a lawyer, by I wonder whether NPR could not be sued for infringing on the constitutional rule about church-state separation). <br />2. These people, at all levels (from Templeton to Hagerty to the poor victims that are likely to be financially ruined by their folly), should be an object of study for relevant professionals (psychiatrists, sociologists, social psychologists, political scientists and more), not to demonstrate that their doctrines are crappish (they are) but to analyze the mental and social processes at play in these doings, and the curious paradox that the most advanced nation on Earth, with more than half the population reaching a college education, could still harbor such tremendous amount of craziness, not in some obscure recesses of society but in the likes of NPR.Hector M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10008738285159771679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-76317853110789612322011-05-08T15:04:07.332-04:002011-05-08T15:04:07.332-04:00gatheringwater, as I mentioned in the post, of cou...gatheringwater, as I mentioned in the post, of course these things should be covered, as human stories. But these people are seriously deluded, and the reporter should give enough context to reinforce that idea. They shouldn't be treated any different from people suffering from serious depression. Nothing like that was apparent in the piece, not to mention that Hagerty has now made a habit of doing fluff pieces on religion.<br /><br />Thameron, you may not have noticed, but this entire blog is dedicated to quixotic enterprises. That's just what we do. More seriously though, I don't actually share yours and others' cynicism. Just because NPR gets it wrong some of the time that doesn't disqualify it as a serious news source, arguably the most reliable in the US. That sort of cynicism is easy to indulge in, and not very helpful.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099460671669064269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-14243337062830013252011-05-08T12:58:43.790-04:002011-05-08T12:58:43.790-04:00I listened to the piece and I thought it was a fas...I listened to the piece and I thought it was a fascinating and restrained look at people who share an irrational belief. Hagerty isn't promoting their view or saying anything about what she believes. She explored the motivations for this belief (the interview of the man who said it was less stressful to live as if the world were about to end was interesting) and she also pointed out that the minister promoting this irrational belief had been wrong in the past. What else was she supposed to do? Sneer at the deluded people? I like news stories that let me make up my own mind and this was one of them.<br /><br />I do think the story is incomplete without a follow-up interview, however.gatheringwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10280709640991823233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-45152135721144179052011-05-08T12:57:05.882-04:002011-05-08T12:57:05.882-04:00This piece is about religion as mental illness and...This piece is about religion as mental illness and social irresponsibility - it is creepy, sad, and utterly unengaged with reality; I see NPR becoming more open to propagating woo; having grown up with NPR, I find this disappointing, even disgusting.<br /><br />Here is the link to the NPR Weekend Edition spot - <a href="http://www.npr.org/2011/05/07/136053462/is-the-end-nigh-well-know-soon-enough" rel="nofollow">Is the End Nigh?</a><br /><br />Please listen and write to NPR, if you have a mind to.bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09487342445828242334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-70013374700902214482011-05-08T12:05:18.538-04:002011-05-08T12:05:18.538-04:00Another Windmill Don Pigliucci? You are an intell...Another Windmill Don Pigliucci? You are an intelligent fellow. Surely you know that the truth will never interfere with the telling of a good story, and there is no story like the end times to fire people's blood. <br /><br />Personally I think this is because people, as inveterate story tellers, naturally gravitate towards the key points in a story and those are the beginning and the end, and since we obviously can't be there at the beginning being there at the end is the only realistic option. <br /><br />This will teach you not to lean on NPR for truth. Some time ago, and with some shock, I heard the host of Science Friday in all seriousness talking about homeopathic treatments for animals as if they were effective. Bastions of rationality are few and far between. Soon the technical journals will be all that is left and the medical technical journals are already partially compromised. I don't think getting angry or frustrated is an effective strategy to combat this though. I sleep much better simply expecting that everyone will be stupid and insane.Thameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056803143951310082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-30599725328051497692011-05-08T11:42:10.289-04:002011-05-08T11:42:10.289-04:00I hope this wasn't on "All" things c...I hope this wasn't on "All" things considered! I stopped listening to NPR years ago because of their one-sided reporting on important issues. They never reported on *why* Milosovich's message resonated with Serbs, and they kept referring to the break-up of Yugoslavia as "ethnic" tensions when in fact it was one ethnic group with three religions at war with each other.<br /><br />I'm tempted to look up this reportage to listen to it but I might be tempted to jab knived into my ears. Thank you for taking them to task.LadyAtheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12132821431322748921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-75964495570276232502011-05-08T11:35:27.971-04:002011-05-08T11:35:27.971-04:00Massimo,
The coincidental irony of it all is tha...Massimo, <br /><br />The coincidental irony of it all is that Hagerty's radio piece aired on May 7th, David Hume's 300th birthday.Cian Eamon Marleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09070168038290681070noreply@blogger.com