tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post3693454377696889156..comments2023-10-10T08:02:18.073-04:00Comments on Rationally Speaking: Intellectual arroganceUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-37394253088846376532008-10-02T20:28:00.000-04:002008-10-02T20:28:00.000-04:00Caliana said;"We who do understand what kind of th...Caliana said;<BR/>"We who do understand what kind of things have been given up for our security and safety, we DO tend to be more committed."<BR/>It's a painful reality that people tend to value those things they paid a lot for - even if that value is false. In business, it manifests as a desire to tote up the cost of capital equipment. In business, best practice teaches that the only rational concern is present value and the cost of future options. What you paid for it yesterday may be a lot, or a little, but unless you have evidence, it isn't a true reflection of today's value. e.g. Your father may have suffered for nothing (no advancement of freedom). In any case, my point is that people like your father have suffered just like your father did, for nothing. That is horrible, but if you don't face it, you may be blind to sending more boys off to suffer the same fate.<BR/><BR/>On another note, I am guilty of often talking about the arrogance of 'the West,' and how we tend to overestimate the reach of science (scientists know everything, and in great detail) and the power of analytical logic. Often knowledge which is popular or cultural or inductively inferred is dismissed as baseless simply because there is no scientific evidence to back it up. Consequently, when scientists finally did the studies and announced, with breathless self-importance, that they'd 'discovered' the reality of PMS, women who'd been observing it firsthand for generations felt justified disgust. Just because you did a survey to determine where the Washington Monument was within .0001 inches doesn't mean you discovered it.<BR/><BR/>That said, most of the criticism of science belongs in the wings. The vast body has been tested so vigorously that it justifies firm faith.<BR/><BR/>I am afraid, though, that maybe we are misinterpreting the signs. I think the conservatives of the 30s and 40s criticised the social programs of the liberals by saying there was no scientific evidence to back them up. Then the liberals, acknowledging that truth, went out to do the diligence. When the science came back (like, on the ineffectiveness of 'abstinence only'), the liberals thought the conservatives would jump right on board. Instead, the conservatives are attacking the science with mass marketed lies and illogic. I don't think the problem is that they don't understand. I think the problem is that _WE_ don't understand. They don't care what logic or evidence or reason we use to argue our point. They've already made up their mind, and will use any weapon at hand to get what they want, which is to take us back to ancient Egypt; with a few absolute rulers, and vast, impoverished, illiterate masses. I don't know exactly why. Maybe it is a simpler world; black and white, right and wrong. Maybe they just relish Crime and Punishment when liberals want to alleviate suffering. <BR/><BR/>I think we should be careful not to be distracted from the real problem, which is mounting political opposition to their point of view. We certainly need to heed the use (against science!!)of the social sciences (advertising) in controlling the masses by controlling the media, and go after the root. We need to change their minds more directly (by finding out what they want and convincing them that science, rationality, conscience will get them there). Whether science is true or accurate appears to be irrelevant to them.<BR/><BR/>Sorry about the long post; great discussion, all!Gearheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06602353534790236776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-52734649143893131802008-10-02T17:59:00.000-04:002008-10-02T17:59:00.000-04:00Mali,thanks, I corrected the typo and will lower t...Mali,<BR/><BR/>thanks, I corrected the typo and will lower the stipend of my editor, Phil Pollack. Oh wait, I don't actually pay him! :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099460671669064269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-84416946033369856662008-10-02T17:55:00.000-04:002008-10-02T17:55:00.000-04:00I don't disagree with you, but if you're going to ...I don't disagree with you, but if you're going to talk about mental superiority, you should probably proof-read!<BR/><BR/>"My skin is think enough, I assure you, or I wouldn’t have been able to survive for a quarter century"<BR/><BR/>While an interesting statement, I'm pretty sure you meant "THICK enough."Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07838841346137342185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-34233848901817121172008-09-27T02:13:00.000-04:002008-09-27T02:13:00.000-04:00Why think and reason when you can just believe and...Why think and reason when you can just believe and be part of the club?asdfjklhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04817333266372476849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-80182322995459573692008-09-25T13:01:00.000-04:002008-09-25T13:01:00.000-04:00Catliana:the statement that "God supports Sarah,,,...Catliana:<BR/>the statement that "God supports Sarah,,," is totally erroneous. How do I know?<BR/><BR/>Because I AM GOD and I don't support her,,,<BR/><BR/>Now, prove me a liar!<BR/><BR/>GAry 7Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16211818520889440159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-9142816967657682622008-09-25T10:39:00.000-04:002008-09-25T10:39:00.000-04:00Fantastic post! I completely agree with you on thi...Fantastic post! I completely agree with you on this one. The anti-intellectual/anti-scientific climate has forced society back a few steps. It's now "cool" to be completely illogical. People even seem to congratulate others for blind faith and ignorance. <BR/><BR/>I sure hope that the anti-intellectual global warming stops soon.<BR/><BR/>SkelliotAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-16101565080152067182008-09-24T21:01:00.000-04:002008-09-24T21:01:00.000-04:00Prof. Pigliucci;Are you available for a radio inte...Prof. Pigliucci;<BR/><BR/>Are you available for a radio interview? I apologize for contacting you in the comments section of your blog, but I couldn't find contact information elsewhere.<BR/><BR/>I can be reached at Radio90.7fm@gmailcom<BR/><BR/><BR/>Thanks! ~MichaelUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05150100771629182646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-59490426742584410032008-09-24T20:54:00.000-04:002008-09-24T20:54:00.000-04:00Um... wow.All I can do is to chime in and say, bra...Um... wow.<BR/><BR/>All I can do is to chime in and say, bravo! I don't know when or why "elite" or "expert" or "scientist" became dirty words, but you refute that nonsense brilliantly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-14244575840586028412008-09-24T17:31:00.000-04:002008-09-24T17:31:00.000-04:00Bravo, Dr. Pigliucci!Bravo, Dr. Pigliucci!Rupert Hippohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11625972476470777797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-19722580972995732072008-09-24T07:57:00.000-04:002008-09-24T07:57:00.000-04:00Excellent post! John Pieret thinks we should pres...Excellent post! John Pieret thinks we should press-gang you for our blog carnival, and after reading this, I agree. If you'd like to take this post cruising with us on September 27th, drop us a line at elitistbastardscarnival@gmail.com.<BR/><BR/>Hope to see you aboard!Dana Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09588487815623499463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-64605264430018576382008-09-16T12:02:00.000-04:002008-09-16T12:02:00.000-04:00"Exactly what dialogue is taking place in Iraq, Ca..."Exactly what dialogue is taking place in Iraq, Cal?"<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8 <BR/><BR/>You have been severely mislead, Kimpat, to think that most American soldiers hate the Iraqis. <BR/><BR/>Now and then, get your news and info from different sources. I do.calianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06702074438747578526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-35671319606005960102008-09-08T05:26:00.000-04:002008-09-08T05:26:00.000-04:00Exactly what dialogue is taking place in Iraq, Cal...Exactly what dialogue is taking place in Iraq, Cal?Kimpatsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06156184889287692016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-77159422865427250222008-09-08T01:01:00.000-04:002008-09-08T01:01:00.000-04:00"The last thing I would do, would be to start an u..."The last thing I would do, would be to start an unnecessary war if my sons or daughters were in the military. <BR/><BR/>Think sometimes for you spout something completely untrue."<BR/><BR/>Right. So McCain must obviously have voted against allowing Bush to go to war with Iraq.Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-17440885375580831512008-09-07T17:57:00.000-04:002008-09-07T17:57:00.000-04:00JF"The fact that you put the word "right" in scare...JF"The fact that you put the word "right" in scare quotes shows how little you take the concept of freedom seriously."<BR/><BR/>On the contrary. I love even these protesters just like anyone else. That's why I walk right through their protest and smile at them instead of walking on the other side of the street like pretty much everyone. And they do have the right to their protest. But it can't go without saying, that it is a huge misrepresentation of what freedom is for. Freedom is for dialogue. People only start screaming and ranting when there is NO tolerance for constructive dialogue left in the world.<BR/><BR/>Hate that. <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>JF "And the Vietnam war wasn't in defense of our freedom, anyway."<BR/><BR/>When you have administration after administration, you are bound to have some mistakes made. It does not rightly make the whole of American justice automatically corrupt. I am also not about to say that all military people and their service to their country was a complete waste because SOME MISTAKES have been made. That would be a ridiculous oversimplification. <BR/><BR/>My father was trapped in an overturned tank for days on end up to possibly up to a week (serving after Korea and the beginning of Vietnam) while all the other soldiers with him were dead. He had to hold out in that tank till someone finally rescued him. So, not surprisingly, he had a nervous breakdown.<BR/><BR/>So at this point in my life, what do you suggest that my level of commitment ought to be? <BR/><BR/>We who do understand what kind of things have been given up for our security and safety, we DO tend to be more committed. <BR/><BR/>I'm just darn thankful that my dad isn't trying to kill people anymore. Sometimes I have feared he might accidentally kill me. Figured if I can overcome that fear (which I am always in the process of doing) I can do pretty much anything.calianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06702074438747578526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-71442815751227090272008-09-07T16:48:00.000-04:002008-09-07T16:48:00.000-04:00"And I was even much closer to the several hundred..."And I was even much closer to the several hundred protesters who came to rant and holler at how mad they are for living in a free country where a military man like McCain can run for pres!"<BR/><BR/>Oh yeah Cal, they were surely there to protest the fact that McCain can legally run for president! That's what really angers all of us liberals!<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"LOL Yeah, it sure shows a lot of class to scream at and slander the man who took EXTREME torture and abuse for you, so you can TODAY have the 'right' to make such incredibly foolish and cowardly decisions."<BR/><BR/>The fact that you put the word "right" in scare quotes shows how little you take the concept of freedom seriously.<BR/><BR/>And the Vietnam war wasn't in defense of our freedom, anyway.Joseph Frantzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09002838588050900281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-11361978404855124402008-09-07T12:47:00.000-04:002008-09-07T12:47:00.000-04:00It hasn't taken Caliana long to fall back on the u...It hasn't taken Caliana long to fall back on the usual nonsense that conservatives use when they are incapable of offering real arguments. What is ironical and laughable is his/her admonition to "Think sometimes for you spout something". Would it that s/he would follow that advice. Let us review: the Republicans are the ones that ran a campaign against a triple amputee veteran (Max Cleland) that maligned his patriotism. A Republican candidate (Mitt Romney) is the one that suggested that his five sons were serving their country equally by campaigning for him. And neocons (the group identified in the comment that Caliana is responding to) have not served in the army -- the entire gang, in fact, took every option available to avoid enlisting or being drafted.<BR/><BR/>What is also despicable is Caliana's claim that protestors and activists are any less concerned with the good of all and serving that interest. The US has not faced a serious war of <B>defence</B> since World War II (when it was attacked in Pearl Harbour and elsewhere). On the other hand, it has had to fight internal attacks (racism, sexism, etc) that weaken its democracy and egalitarianism. Each of these causes have been advanced by activists (civil rights, gender and other equality, etc).<BR/><BR/>I feel no compunction to feel cowed or influenced by Caliana's threats and mischaracterisations. I owe McCain <B>nothing</B>, especially, as Muhammad Ali once said, no "Vietnamese ever called me nigger". That McCain stuck it out in his cell in solidarity with his mates is commendable -- of course solidarity is exactly what the left is about, in contrast to conservative right-wing individualism. And so, I congratulate McCain on his erstwhile leftist tendencies. Too bad he has left that well behind him as he panders to the "agents of intolerance", blocks bills that benefit veterans and is opposed today by groups like the Iraq Veterans Against the War.<BR/><BR/>And if Caliana wants to see what courage, that is courage without the arsenal of the world's largest and most powerful military behind you, I invite her to study about people on the left like Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King Jr, and recently Rachel Corrie.Ravihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11142174677242332646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-55544367317256162292008-09-07T10:58:00.000-04:002008-09-07T10:58:00.000-04:00I'd also like to add that McCain dis NOT "take ext...I'd also like to add that McCain dis NOT "take extreme abuse and torture for me"; he suffered as a POW because of US imperialism and warmongering. America had no right to be in Vietnam. Or are you claiming manifest desitny again, Cal?Kimpatsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06156184889287692016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-77716125500682059632008-09-07T10:57:00.000-04:002008-09-07T10:57:00.000-04:00Cal, Palin is a creationist. That means she is ser...Cal, Palin is a creationist. That means she is seriously intellectually challenged. McCain thinks evil is a person.<BR/>These people can't be trusted with running a coffee circle, let alone the White House.Kimpatsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06156184889287692016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-88940214812307262792008-09-07T10:34:00.000-04:002008-09-07T10:34:00.000-04:00HG: This obviously reflects the neoconservative de...HG: This obviously reflects the neoconservative desire to start another ruinous war on a country that has nothing to do with al Qaeda."<BR/><BR/>Oh, of course. Especially since the McCain /Palin ticket has a total of FOUR military men (those are their sons)in their respective families in the service right now. The last thing I would do, would be to start an unnecessary war if my sons or daughters were in the military. <BR/><BR/>Think sometimes for you spout something completely untrue. <BR/><BR/>I was possibly about five feet from Palin and McCain last night. And I was even much closer to the several hundred protesters who came to rant and holler at how mad they are for living in a free country where a military man like McCain can run for pres! LOL Yeah, it sure shows a lot of class to scream at and slander the man who took EXTREME torture and abuse for you, so you can TODAY have the "right" to make such incredibly foolish and cowardly decisions.calianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06702074438747578526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-5434213406058152812008-09-06T13:01:00.000-04:002008-09-06T13:01:00.000-04:00I refer to this phenomenon as the movement of "Int...I refer to this phenomenon as the movement of "Intellectual Affirmative Action". It's become chic to have absolutely no expertise in a field while also being unable to at least show basic critical/logical thinking skills yet still claim that you have some sort of 'right' to have your "opinion (that's the favorite word to toss around) should be just as important as anyone else's. They've turned it into a mental version of this inane 'equality' issue by effectively subtly implying that to call them wrong is a subversive argumentum ad hominem. <BR/><BR/>All hail anti-intellectualism! (sarcasm...)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13042039448195597876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-22093571180681673892008-09-06T00:56:00.000-04:002008-09-06T00:56:00.000-04:00Speaking of reality revision, the night of McCain'...Speaking of reality revision, the night of McCain's speech the RNC ran a "tribute" to the 9/11 victims which says that "the [Jihadist] enemy" began its attacks us back in the 1979 Iranian hostage crisis.<BR/><BR/>This obviously reflects the neoconservative desire to start another ruinous war on a country that has nothing to do with al Qaeda.Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-48451751458999550402008-09-05T12:33:00.000-04:002008-09-05T12:33:00.000-04:00ravi,I have to disagree in part on astrology. True...ravi,<BR/><BR/>I have to disagree in part on astrology. True, it is not just a matter of fraud (though that's to some extent what's going on). But the other part is not that astrology is "unproductive," it's that it is downright wrong. It's bad science and it should be treated as such.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099460671669064269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-72307707499449261452008-09-05T11:53:00.000-04:002008-09-05T11:53:00.000-04:00Massimo,regarding differentiating between arroganc...Massimo,<BR/><BR/>regarding differentiating between arrogances: yes I agree there is a difference, and I even agree it is an important one. I will note though that the general public is somewhat (if subconsciously) aware of this: they condemn the arrogance but do not necessarily boycott the results/products (which I do not think is hypocritical). Also, the general distaste for arrogance is a salubrious one, in my opinion.<BR/><BR/>Regarding Randi: well yes, debunking fraud is important, but the problematic issue is the larger claims and larger context in which it is carried out. Scientific fraud (such as carried out by Eddington, perhaps unintentionally) does not negate science. Some could claim that absent fraud, astrology (to take on vilified "field") has provided nothing, and therefore astrology, is in its basis, a fraud. But that is incorrect on two fronts: astrology's problem is atrophy, for there was a time when it was synonymous with astronomy (as historians of science tell us). The second problem is that even if a field is entirely unproductive, that does not reduce it to a fraud, since fraud involves intention, and so on. Further one never knows when a progressive area of study (unlike an atrophied one) might yield unexpected results.<BR/><BR/>Finally, regarding disagreement with a bevy of experts: the philosopher Simon Blackburn approvingly (mistaken in my opinion) cheers Sokal's prank and considers the prank (Blackburn considers it a well-deserved and sufficient custard pie) and Sokal's later book cottage industry based on it, a matter of a scientist paying attention to philosophy. The same Blackburn however is at odds with scientific consensus on global warming. In fact, he claims that there is no such real consensus. What do we make of it?<BR/><BR/>IMHO, the only valid application of arrogance (intellectual or otherwise), similar to violence, is to counter its use by a more powerful entity.Ravihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11142174677242332646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-41313628441234954752008-09-04T22:59:00.000-04:002008-09-04T22:59:00.000-04:00Indeed, reality denial and revision is a well-paid...<B>Indeed, reality denial and revision is a well-paid niche within the conservative movement.</B><BR/><BR/>Talk about it... Last night's (9/3) Daily Show had a masterpiece on the subject, seriously. They had some 4 or 5 instances of conservative hypocrisy on display. The best thing is that most of them were extremely recent. E.g. Karl Rove bashing the possibility of Tim Kaine as VP (only 3 years governor, mayor of my small town of Richmond, only 200,000 people), to a few weeks later be gushing praise over... you know who. Another favorite was Bill O'Reilly calling Britney Spears (spell?) parents "pinheads" and full at fault for her younger sister's pregnancy a little while ago... Then you know what he says next, don't you?<BR/><BR/>Watch the episode, it's great. And Stewart gets mildly angry at Newt Gingrich to boot at the interview. :-DJ. Marcelo Alveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09967299561849915314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-83186969692242582582008-09-04T21:10:00.000-04:002008-09-04T21:10:00.000-04:00"Our national discourse has gotten so bad that dem..."Our national discourse has gotten so bad that demagogues can get away with throwing any amount of mud at their opponents while claiming to have their hands as clean as snow..."<BR/><BR/>Not only that - they can just make things up, things that are completely detached from reality and they suffer not at all for it. Indeed, reality denial and revision is a well-paid niche within the conservative movement.<BR/><BR/>During Mitt Romney's speech last night he said that "big government liberals" had to be voted out to stop run-away federal spending. Um, the federal deficit quintrupled under Reagan and Bush; national debt went from 914 billion to 4 trillion. Under Clinton the budget got balanced in his second term and the deficit transformed into a surplus, which was immediately turned back into massive deficits by Bush and the Republican Congress he had for much of his time in office.<BR/><BR/>Anti-intellectualism is just a sub-set of the party's larger pattern of anti-realityism.Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.com