tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post1019507533861728241..comments2023-10-10T08:02:18.073-04:00Comments on Rationally Speaking: Massimo's picksUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-73825962859308569842010-03-05T11:37:28.766-05:002010-03-05T11:37:28.766-05:00No matter what you may say your understanding of w...No matter what you may say your understanding of what "learning" is, it certainly isn't to avoid error, and it certainly isn't to, well, learn. You seem too prideful and willfully blind to realize that. I seem to recall pride being considered a sin in the Christian tradition. Perhaps you didn't learn that.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16038143823260179846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-42005543198225946122010-03-05T11:35:01.458-05:002010-03-05T11:35:01.458-05:00"That is because there is nothing whatsoever ..."That is because there is nothing whatsoever sensible to write about evolution."<br /><br />And this is based on what degree of study? How much of the primary literature have you gone through? To what degree have you actually investigated what you are so willing to render judgment upon? From what I have read of your comments on this blog, you don't seem to have even a rudimentary understanding of the subject, and yet you can come to that judgment? As an evolutionary biologist, I find that blanket statement, written in ignorance and prejudice, to be profoundly insulting.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16038143823260179846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-2801876629591484042010-03-05T11:10:17.600-05:002010-03-05T11:10:17.600-05:00It could be, if for instance, someone is mixing ce...<i>It could be, if for instance, someone is mixing certain ratios of drugs </i><br /><br />But that isn't what you said earlier; you made a blanket statement - error = sin.Jeff Eygeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11967707883565162538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-82080647501985321442010-03-05T11:07:25.570-05:002010-03-05T11:07:25.570-05:00"So, Caliana, if someone says, "Two plus..."So, Caliana, if someone says, "Two plus two equals five" - that's sin?"<br /><br />It could be, if for instance, someone is mixing certain ratios of drugs (I work in health care) and they know the ratio is wrong and doesn't "add up" but they do it anyway. That could lead to murder. In many and most instances the correct answer really does matter.calianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06702074438747578526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-60450845612330883662010-03-05T11:01:02.085-05:002010-03-05T11:01:02.085-05:00"The woman has never written anything sensibl..."The woman has never written anything sensible about evolution that I know of."<br /><br />That is because there is nothing whatsoever sensible to write about evolution. Environments don't CREATE they are created by the very things they are said to act on. Natural Selection as well has not a thing to do with astronomy and many other scientific disciplines. Given ALL THE THINGS IT CANNOT EXPLAIN how that can be used as a filter by which every other issue of life has to flow through is beyond my stretchable imagination! You guys can hang on to it if you need to tho.calianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06702074438747578526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-30231517760689542182010-03-05T11:00:21.301-05:002010-03-05T11:00:21.301-05:00I've been lurking for a while, but have reluct...I've been lurking for a while, but have reluctant to participate because, frankly, I have a problem with Christian trolls, and I've been waiting to see if yours would go away. However, I couldn't let this one go by:<br /><br /><i>One cannot TRULY learn if one does not believe that learning is solely to prevent one from error, and ERROR (and not to really learn) is bad. "Error" is synonym for sin, incidentally.</i><br /><br />So, Caliana, if someone says, "Two plus two equals five" - that's sin?Jeff Eygeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11967707883565162538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-48745796145988274852010-03-05T04:29:47.552-05:002010-03-05T04:29:47.552-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07573847127040276949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-61416148952349342582010-03-05T03:13:11.557-05:002010-03-05T03:13:11.557-05:00Roy,
the "great" Mary Midgley"? Th...Roy,<br /><br />the "great" Mary Midgley"? The woman has never written anything sensible about evolution that I know of.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099460671669064269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-70275482835151713772010-03-04T15:06:31.426-05:002010-03-04T15:06:31.426-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07573847127040276949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-46422363547082786952010-03-04T13:56:21.088-05:002010-03-04T13:56:21.088-05:00"In true blowhard fashion, the person who con..."In true blowhard fashion, the person who continually makes the least amount of sense on the this blog was the one voluntarily disclosed their "IQ."<br /><br />What's your arbitrary IQ, Occam? <br /><br />An interesting question might be if people higher numbers can actually and always out think people with lower numbers. I'd say no. There too, it might depend on what group you happen to be with.calianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06702074438747578526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-5404654811237509222010-03-04T13:36:19.317-05:002010-03-04T13:36:19.317-05:00No, Roy, sometimes one REALLY HAS TO CHOOSE betwee...No, Roy, sometimes one REALLY HAS TO CHOOSE between the superficial and the enduring. <br /><br />As for me, we all realized when I was 12, doing cartwheels down the concourse with my mini purse flying through the air at DFW airport,(my sis was a flight attendant for Delta) that I was never gonna be sophisticated. :) Bless her heart, she tried SO HARD to turn me into a lady. I was such a wild child, it was ridiculous.<br /><br />So how many cartwheels can you do in row? LOL! :)calianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06702074438747578526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-78998886489173151142010-03-04T13:25:32.979-05:002010-03-04T13:25:32.979-05:00Conservative without shame/ End of life issues.
S...Conservative without shame/ End of life issues.<br /><br />Shame would be the result when taking a short cut that one should not and both euthanasia and abortion qualify as taking a short cut. <br /><br />This writer shaming people for saving their children? THAT is about as backwards as it gets. People who want to help black families save their children surely must have BAD MOTIVES? Another piece with poor scholarship. At least there are few young people who can still think well and are not part of the DEATH PACT. <br /><br />"In another powerful and articulate address, the young Toronto native explores the devastating consequences Canada would face if it welcomed euthanasia, and implores Canadians to find ways of caring for suffering patients rather than killing them."<br /><br />Remarkably this 13 year old does not sound AT ALL like she has been promoted to say this. This is clearly her own point of view. <br /><br />Video:<br /><br />http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/mar/10030212.htmlcalianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06702074438747578526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-30754737097652457522010-03-04T00:42:10.554-05:002010-03-04T00:42:10.554-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07573847127040276949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-82063975716727429272010-03-03T20:10:47.192-05:002010-03-03T20:10:47.192-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07573847127040276949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-17583477026021575632010-03-03T17:45:48.979-05:002010-03-03T17:45:48.979-05:00Massimo, for those of us who are sense of humor ch...Massimo, for those of us who are sense of humor challenged, I suggest that you flag your pick of pseudo-scientific papers as such (no smileys please). Some of us may think you're serious. Thanks in advance.bennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00861699243677815489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-53936162766979346562010-03-03T14:07:46.442-05:002010-03-03T14:07:46.442-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07573847127040276949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-57751933028551956742010-03-03T13:37:09.505-05:002010-03-03T13:37:09.505-05:00Caliana, why do your replies so rarely match the p...Caliana, why do your replies so rarely match the posts you are replying to? Or to ask a slightly tangential question, is reading comprehension perhaps not your strongest suit? Or perhaps you could understand, but you never bother to read carefully?<br /><br />My second point was simply that even if the ten most intelligent persons on the planet were conservatives, conservatives could still on average be significantly more stupid than liberals, because of the way statistics work.Alex SLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00801894164903608204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-3938362685335430112010-03-03T12:09:43.019-05:002010-03-03T12:09:43.019-05:00Well regardless of what various people might think...Well regardless of what various people might think "average" means there are markers of what many think looks like intelligence. <br /><br />Those being "Wisdom" or "Sophistication" and the two virtually opposite extremes of the other. I believe that secular philosophy ascribes more so to sophistication while nonsecular philosophy tends to prefer wisdom.<br /><br />Sophistication (how one finesses a situation or functions socially) speaks to having a facade or pretentiousness and I wouldn't think of that as being either wise or intelligent. Therefore I would have a hard time finding the secular ideal of sophistication as being a good indicator of intelligence. Most everything is judged by what is on the surface.(teenagers think this way) <br /><br />I, otoh, would only care about what others REALLY DO WITH THE INFORMATION THEY HAVE. Is it practical does it make sense? That would be indicative of a truly intelligent person.calianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06702074438747578526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-49370548267040239082010-03-03T08:29:31.840-05:002010-03-03T08:29:31.840-05:00Well, what exactly is intelligence? The way I, and...Well, what exactly is intelligence? The way I, and I guess most people, use the word would imply something a bit more complex than being able to answer what the next number in a sequence is, which is basically the level of complexity to be expected from an IQ test. Anyway, the word is extremely hard to define, even if we may feel confident to label other people as possessing more or less of it after knowing them well enough.<br /><br />As for some conservatives or believers being exceptionally intelligent, well, some posters here might want to consider what "on average" means. Or to cite John Stuart Mill:<br /><br /><i>I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.</i>Alex SLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00801894164903608204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-58426804914965116162010-03-03T03:53:11.291-05:002010-03-03T03:53:11.291-05:00I agree with MP. That study may be dubious, and we...I agree with MP. That study may be dubious, and we should be receptive to further criticisms of the collection and/or filtering of the data, and we certainly should be suspicious of its interpretation.<br /><br />But we must provisionally accept (absent evidence to the contrary or evidence for fraud or methodological errors) that the relationships if not the conclusions based upon them are true.<br /><br />Some ideologies are more appealing to intelligent people than others. For example, I think that, all else being equal, self-consistency is more highly valued by intelligent people. So, if two ideologies were very similar with one being more self consistent than the other, many intelligent people would simply shift from one to another.<br /><br />When we think of what gets defined as "conservatism" in the U.S. today, it is pretty tied to the politics of the Republican party. This is a party that argues that national debt is bad and that taxes are bad, but has actively supported expensive wars, increased entitlement spending, and cutting taxes. This certainly does not lead to decreased deficits.<br /><br />For the American context ca. 2010 and for the American-flavored version of what it means to be "conservative" (as opposed to "moderate", "liberal", "libertarian", or an eclectic mix), I think it is perfectly reasonable for that conclusion.<br /><br />That's not to say that an intelligent person should necessarily agree with the goals of the self-described "liberal" political party of the United States, but it would describe why people who are intelligent in the U.S. avoid the label of "conservative", as it is very highly associated with Republican policy. Even if you dislike "liberal" policy in the U.S., it is hard to argue that the alternative isn't anti-intellectual, inconsistent, etc.<br /><br />If nothing else, intelligent people who consider themselves conservative have more incentive to avoid association with Republicans than intelligent people who consider themselves liberal.<br /><br />Some parties really have some seriously questionable reputations that smart people wouldn't want to be associated with. Even if the dominant "liberal" party is slightly less anti-intellectual than the dominant "conservative" party, I would expect a self-selection bias.<br /><br />To think otherwise would be require that mythical "fair-and-balanced, all-alternative-opinions-are-always-equal" perspective.<br /><br />Of course, the data may or may not show that. I'm not enthusiastic about evolutinary psychology, so I probably won't explore it. But, for today's context, smart people that vote Republican would still probably deny their "conservative" affiliation more often than smart people who vote Democratic deny their "liberal" affiliation.<br /><br />Of course, this isn't necessarily evidence that liberals are smarter than conservatives. It could just as well be that some sort of reverse Bradley effect may afflict smart conservatives.J.J. Emersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06005635061756895272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-27053140695413576152010-03-03T02:20:10.292-05:002010-03-03T02:20:10.292-05:00Why should one not believe that IQ is a reliable m...Why should one not believe that IQ is a reliable measure of general intelligence? Why are the studies in question flawed? I don't understand the skepticism here.<br /><br />I wonder how the relationships change when we break social conservatism and fiscal conservatism into two different groups. Fiscal conservatism has theoretical and practical foundations that are supported or partially supported by many academic economists. I imagine that the correlation between liberalism and intelligence is greater for social values than it is for economic issues.Ritchie the Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10249784344018510589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-49619944619736690722010-03-03T00:14:50.514-05:002010-03-03T00:14:50.514-05:00I think the evolutionary explanation of the iq stu...<i>I think the evolutionary explanation of the iq study is weak at best (you know my opinion about evopsych), but the data is data... The fact that you are a smart libertarian (and not really a conservative) is simply the quintessential exception that proves the rule, my friend.</i><br /><br />Massimo,<br /><br />I love your blog and usually agree with you, but this is one point where I think that you are completely wrong, and your preferences are strongly influencing your conclusions.<br /><br />There are many good reasons to think that IQ is not a reliable measure of "general intelligence". These tests are flawed.<br /><br />And I say this even as a person who agrees with the hypothesis that liberals and unbelievers tend to be smarter. If you look at any correlations you like, those who fall on the more intellectual side tend to be atheists and liberals.<br /><br />But this ev psych study of IQ doesn't contribute anything to that data. It's just BS.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04884826688668473370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-12600158254136205122010-03-02T18:30:11.792-05:002010-03-02T18:30:11.792-05:00The IQ article is a hot topic it seems.
Thanks ...The IQ article is a hot topic it seems. <br /><br />Thanks for the link to your Amazon reviews. I love the philosophy of science though I've never stepped foot on a campus. For some reason, I take more to you and Shermer than many other science/philosophy authors. Orson Scott Card for fiction. I do think I'll try Philop Roth, you'd reviewed one of his books.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17258962846411519131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-67731918168696263752010-03-02T17:27:34.992-05:002010-03-02T17:27:34.992-05:00Calania, usually when people post their IQ it'...Calania, usually when people post their IQ it's a feeble attempt to show that they must be right because at some time in the past they were smarter than average. So I wrongly assumed that was your point. Nice to know it was simply that IQ proves nothing and you're no smarter than the average liberal atheist. And that you've stopped learning and are free from sin..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-68267357891467384082010-03-02T17:00:06.860-05:002010-03-02T17:00:06.860-05:00Benny,
I think the evolutionary explanation of th...Benny,<br /><br />I think the evolutionary explanation of the iq study is weak at best (you know my opinion about evopsych), but the data is data... The fact that you are a smart libertarian (and not really a conservative) is simply the quintessential exception that proves the rule, my friend.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099460671669064269noreply@blogger.com