About Rationally Speaking


Rationally Speaking is a blog maintained by Prof. Massimo Pigliucci, a philosopher at the City University of New York. The blog reflects the Enlightenment figure Marquis de Condorcet's idea of what a public intellectual (yes, we know, that's such a bad word) ought to be: someone who devotes himself to "the tracking down of prejudices in the hiding places where priests, the schools, the government, and all long-established institutions had gathered and protected them." You're welcome. Please notice that the contents of this blog can be reprinted under the standard Creative Commons license.

Wednesday, February 24, 2010

About my grandmother's death

I just returned from a short trip to Italy to attend my grandmother Clara's funeral. I was there for my family, of course, since my grandmother has ceased to exist and will no longer be, ever.
Clara was close to her nephews and nieces, and she was always kind to us while we were growing up. Still, she didn't really die last week at age 95, but rather a few years earlier, when her mind suddenly turned from sharp and alert to hardly being able to recognize where she was or who was visiting her. Despite this, her body was strong, and she physically survived herself for several more years, years that were meaningless to her and painful for us.
Which is why the Catholic service we attended with family and friends rang so hollow, even preposterous. The young priest did his work as well as one would expect. Of course, he didn't know my grandmother, so he had to limit himself to generic statements like “her daughters were lucky to have her as mother” (regardless of what the reality may have been). But that, of course, wasn't the worst of it.
The priest had to utter the standard nonsense, such as “we thank god for her life” (including the meaningless last years of suffering?), or “we make sense of the mystery of death through our faith” (that's like saying that one makes sense of something by embracing nonsense). There is no mystery of death. Death is part of the natural cycle of life, and once the particular combination of atoms that makes our existence possible decays beyond repair we are gone. Sad but natural, no spooky “mystery” involved, no need to prey on people’s emotions and hopes.
My skepticism, indeed my irritation, during the service was of course to be expected. After all, I'm a godless atheist. But I had time to look around me and watch the reactions of people I know well. Perhaps the most distraught of my relatives was my aunt, my mother's sister. She is allegedly a devout Catholic, and yet the priest's words seemed to be of no comfort at all to her, as if she didn't really believe that her mother was now in “a better place,” as if she realized just as much as I did that this was the final curtain, with no possibility of an encore.
And than there was one of my brothers, who is what I think of as a smart Catholic. It still isn't exactly clear to me what he believes, but he often runs into trouble with the more pious branches of the family because of his rejection of concepts like demons and hell. More than anything else he seemed to be ironically amused at the priest's clumsy attempts to turn my grandmother's funeral into a “joyous” occasion for celebrating “the word of god.”
Clara will be cremated, another instance in which the self-professed infallible Popes of the Catholic faith apparently changed their mind about what scripture says: it used to be that you had to preserve the dead body while waiting for the end time resurrection, apparently now ashes are ok, god will simply add back the necessary water (and restore the low level of entropy).
Funerals, of course, are for the living, not the departed. It was nice to be able to offer as much comfort as I could to my mother, my brothers, my cousins, and my aunt. That comfort did not derive from the malicious illusion that we will all soon see Clara again. It derived from the knowledge that we are here for each other, to celebrate the joys of life together, but also to share the inevitable painful losses. Such is the human condition, but we are strong enough to be able to bear it with the help of our loved ones, no divine givers of random suffering need apply.

44 comments:

  1. Sorry for your loss. Thank you for writing down your thoughts.

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  3. Condolences.

    I must say, the relatively few funerals that I have been to so far (I only had one grandparent when I was born), I found the secular orators just as irritating as the priests, mostly because they also generally do not know the deceased. I suspect a family member would be able to find more adequate words.

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  4. I am sure that even you, Massimo, would exist that there is a mystery, namely existence in the first place, of yourself or indeed anything else. And there is nothing like a contrast with non-existence (ie death) to sharpen thinking on the matter and encourage wonder and gratitude in the fact of existence in the first place. Whether this is a valid secular translation of what the priest was trying to say is another matter, of course.

    I do suspect that the primary problem is that now we no longer live in villages, whether priestly or secular, the person conducting the service knows neither the deceased nor the mourners. This is not a specifically religious problem, however. And there is the occasionally very talented professionals, whether religion or secular, who knows how to interview family and friends in a hurry, join the dots together, weave a compelling narrative, call on appropriate others for detailed eulogies, and limit what they say for the rest to the necessary. We found somebody like that for my atheist father's funeral.

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  5. I'm sorry for your loss.

    Why "malicious"? In what way does malice motivate in this case, and how do you know it does?

    Funerals are indeed for the living, but they can serve a purpose, even a beneficial one, as ceremonies or ritual, or to honor the memory of the deceased. They can have familial and cultural significance, regardless of the validity of the doctrine preached. It's hardly surprising that a Catholic funeral would be a Catholic funeral. I've been to several. If they provide genuine comfort to some, with all their faults, what more can one reasonably demand of them? "Misguided" perhaps; but not malicious, unless one considers religious belief itself malicious, or evil. For me, that goes too far.

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  7. Caliana:

    If you read carefully, you will notice that this is not what I wrote; I was not even mentioning sad, let alone hopeless, but irritating, as in "what does that guy talk about? XYZ wasn't like that".

    And it is really quite annoying how you must twist and turn every topic towards proselytizing. Must be fun being your neighbor:
    "Hey Caliana, what do you think of my rhododendrons?"
    "Jesus loves you! I hope you will see the light!"
    "Er, what?"

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  8. I had a grandmother die about 4 months ago, and it was the first funeral I had gone to in a while, since I grew up, so to speak. I certainly shared many of Massimo's thoughts about it. It was a protestant funeral though.

    I decided then that I would not take part in such ceremonies anymore, even for those closest to me. Hopefully, those who I am close to understand or come to understand why the cultural reproduction of religious practices and feelings are not something I will partake in or acknowledge. It is a simple message. Cultural practices, including religion and ceremonies of death, are an important part of maintaining that culture in ways that I see as deleterious to our society and to the individual who accepts such practices as a reified necessity, even if they believe they have shed the religious meanings behind them. The important thing is to recognize that there are open and multiple ways of organizing societies and in engaging in practices like funerals. I do not think there are inherent benefits in religious practices, or in practices that are empty mimics of religious practices.

    I think it is better to spend quality time with individuals while they are alive, thinking about the cultural practices that we do engage in together, and how to improve such practices in order to improve ourselves as individuals, as family and as friends, and as a society. And if that brings instablity and hurt feelings to those close to me, then hopefully we can engage in enough rational dialogue to come to an appropriate understanding of such a position, or find a better position.

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  9. I'm not sure what Lyndon means by "reified necessity", but in any event I don't think anyone has claimed that there is a need, or obligation, to attend funerals. As far as I'm concerned, at least, he and others may decline to attend them, with my blessing if not that of the family or friends of the deceased.

    I merely point out that I feel construing them, or parts of them, as malicious or maliciously intended is unreasonable.

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  11. Okay, Roy, I'm off your case.
    Don't be a hatin, alright? Sometimes I just think I take the demise of some people more seriously then they do.

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  12. Man, sorry to hear of your nonna's suffering, and of your family's now.

    My experience was similar, except that I wasn't in Brazil, and could not go back quick enough for the funeral, when my nonna died a few years back. I imagine I would be quite annoyed too at the funeral, although I'd definitely not show it. It was all particularly sad, because she had lived in our house most of my life, and we were very close. The death brought a mixed feeling of being happy for the end of her suffering (the last year or two she was very senile and seldom knew what was going on and who's who), but sad in missing her. I still do.

    My grandma also suffered quite a lot between the stroke that left her right side paralyzed and death 5 years later. And also caused suffering to us, specially my mother, physically and mentally. She used to say, when younger, that she wanted to die quickly and was very afraid of being trouble to relatives when old. And that's what happened anyway. To the best person I've ever knew. Good thing I've never believed in religious quackery to begin with, or that could have been the end of my faith right there. She had 9 kids (2 died young) and lived until 83 without ever entering a hospital. The stroke was the first time the strong Italian lady was admitted to a hospital. She never went back either. Died at home, which I think is good.

    Every time I see pictures of my cousins' grandkids on line these days, I think of that old, sweet lady who connects us, even if those kids don't have any idea I exist, or that la nonna existed.

    The memories are very good. :-)

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  13. Sorry for your loss Massimo - these occasions are tough enough even without the imposition of uncomfortable religious practices. As long as you can see past them and stand with your family as you say, that is what is key.

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  14. Thank you Massimo. My own grandmother has entered those waning years of her life, where she knows little of what goes on day to day. Its been difficult, and I'm dreading the day I attend her funeral. Atheism is still very new to me (I have you to thank for opening my eyes to it), so its comforting that people like you still find the need to talk about such things.

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  15. My paternal grandmother died when I was about 7, she was very old and it was no surprise. I remember very little of the catholic service, except that it had little in relation to her. My maternal grandmother died about 20 years or so ago. I was in my teens. I laughed somewhere between the funeral service and the burial. It seemed all too sureal, like the funeral was for someone else. My father, whom I had a difficult relation with due to him being ill and basically taking it out on us kids, died in the late '90's when I was in my 20's. In all cases the catholic funerals seemed almost wrong or stupid. I remember at one of my sisters weddings about 5 years ago, my mum (rusted on catholic) attributed the sunny day to my father smiling down on us apparently now a saint and the priest made all sorts of platitudes about God and how God would bless the marriage. My sister's marriage unfortunately ended painfully a few years after. But with all that pain and suffering God only got the credit, not the negative reviews and the catholic 'sacrements' of marriage and funeral never did improve either event or ameliorate the suffering in my opinion.....Not too say life is worse for us than any others. It's obviously not. I just don't get how religion or belief in God does anything more than deny our humanity or even help....

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  16. Forgive me Massimo. Sorry for your loss. Your story brought forth my thoughts above, which I put forth before considering you. Apologies again. I never felt a great loss with the death of my granparents (my maternal grandfather died a few years ago at a great age and I never knew my paternal grandfather), so I forget that others might have.

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  17. What I hate most about Catholic funerals is the obsession the priest tends to have for "making it all about Jesus"

    even when I considered myself Catholic I'd be sat in family funerals thinking "sod Jesus, this is about [whichever family member]"

    and of course they never know the person!

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  18. Brian,

    no reason to apologize, this is an open forum to comment on whatever I write, and people are usually respectful and civil (well, you've seen some of the few exceptions...).

    Joanna,

    existence might be a mystery, but I don't see how religion sheds any light on it, and yet it pretends to.

    Caliana,

    why on earth did you delete all your posts to this thread?

    Ciceronianus,

    I think the illusion of seeing one's loved ones again is malicious because it is a made up story, and lying to people in order to bring them into the fold is malicious - whether done consciously or not.

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  19. Strange.... my comment is not present anymore. And as far as I can remember I didn't delete it. I'm still subscribed to the comment thread though, so I don't know what happened. Perhaps the same happened to caliana?

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  20. My original post said this:
    My Grandmother also died this month. I was a little sad, but I kept thinking how vivid was the memory of her for me. I kept thinking somehow she was "alive" as a Simulacrum in my head. I have memories not only of her, but her personality, I had expectations, and I saw how that could conspire to form a feel-good illusion of after-life.

    Still, I believe, like you, that this is the only life we have. And hearing others talk about the mystery of death, and those generic sermons, just feel, like you said, hollow.

    In a sense my grandmother was somewhat lucky she died a painful, but relative quick death (stroke). She was lucid and active, even a bit stubborn, until the last days, and even though she had health problems, they were not as debilitating as it could have been for a 90 year-old senior.

    And, thinking of my own mortality I often feel how horrible it would seem to lose yourself slowly. Losing memories of your loved ones, trying to remember only to escape it. Finally losing yourself, and not realizing. This happened with my girlfriend's grandmother and it is so sad.

    But her death, though tragic, reunited long unseen family members, allowed us to reconnect and remember the good things she brought us in her life.

    So, my condolences for the loss of your grandmother, and congratulations for a great blog and a very good podcast.

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  21. Brian, no one removed my comments, I did. I did not want to have what amounted to a fight or argument on this thread, that's all.

    Massimo,
    Last thing that I said to Roy kind of summed it up anyway.

    It is not at all a hidden agenda that I would like anyone who will listen to consider eternity. My husband's uncle saw what was apparently hell right before he died...(maybe it was all the screaming and begging that made everyone think that) He was like a mobster tho. I'm sure he did a lot of crazy, rotten things.

    Obviously not everyone sees heaven or hell before they die. (or maybe it is that they die and come back to life a time or two before they really pass away) ??? That certainly is a mystery, isn't it.

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  22. Massimo:

    Lying can certainly be malicious, but I don't think honestly holding and expressing a belief can be. We have no reason to conclude that the priest didn't honestly believe what he said. One might be something of a Benthamite and claim that the statement is "bad" because of its consequences, regardless of the intent of the speaker, but even then it seems inapporpriate to attribute malice to the speaker or the statement.

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  23. Massimo:

    Lying can certainly be malicious, but I don't think honestly holding and expressing a belief can be. We have no reason to conclude that the priest didn't honestly believe what he said. One might be something of a Benthamite and claim that the statement is "bad" because of its consequences, regardless of the intent of the speaker, but even then it seems inapporpriate to attribute malice to the speaker or the statement.

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  24. ciceronianus,

    When I was not right with God everything that had anything to do with God seemed malicious, a reason to be offended, what have you. It is as if someone is forcing you to walk over a bed of hot coals..you simply don't want to do it. Its the hell with a small "h" before hell I guess.

    And while I don't necessarily consider priests to be a great representation of what a Christan ought to be, I can't say that ZERO priests are Christians either. Only God knows. Malicious intent, no way. Most priests think they are doing whats best for everyone.

    Lived at a Catholic school for awhile when I was a teen. It seemed very peaceful, but I can see now that it was a false peace. 'The path of least resistance' kinda "peace".

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  26. Thank you for articulating so well, what I have so often felt at funerals.

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  27. Just two weeks ago, when I attended my own grandma's Catholic funeral--uncanny resemblance between situations here, as she'd also declined mentally in the last years--I had the misfortune of being asked by my dad to carry the wine to the priest during the mass. One last Catholic act for Grandma, I thought. Of course, though, I abstained from communion, even from going up and signaling with crossed arms that I wasn't Catholic but wouldn't mind a blessing.
    It's a strange ritual, a bulwark of conservative ideas about family and authority, and, my love and respect for my grandma notwithstanding, there was something farcical about the whole thing.

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  28. Hard to imagine that a person would believe that it is malicious if your sole reason for doing something is to keep another person from judgment. That is backwards. It is anything but malicious. I suppose what people perceive or resent is that they are aware of their vulnerability and suggestibility when they have just lost someone. Being suggestible, however, is okay if it actually draws a person closer towards love, light and truth.

    There are worse things in the world than being dependent on something that sustains and supports the soul to bring ya through.

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  29. I wasn't claiming that religion sheds any light on the mystery that is existence. I was saying that the contemplation of death does so. This happens to be a point made by many religions, although it is just as valid for the secular.

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  31. I have never attended a funeral, including those of my father and mother (in that order). I first refused to do so for a beloved uncle at age 12(?), to the extreme consternation of many. But, my family understood, as I am sure they would my lack of subsequent attendance.

    I did, however, recently attend a memorial for the father of one of my graduate students---the deceased father of which was also a well-liked member of the faculty. It was lovely, uplifting, and, I think, provided something my graduate student needed. My NOT being there would have been unnecessarily hurtful, as much as he would have understood it. But then, it was not a funeral, and, although replete with many religious overtones, also had its completely non-secular moments, and some truly transcendent performances (e.g., the Japanese drumming by the percussion group on the very drums created by the deceased was spectacular!)

    I honestly do not get and won't accept the religious ritual, but I do get and celebrate the many performances. It was a very sad time: but I was clapping madly over my tears.

    Thank you Massimo.

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  32. Jen, I am sorry for your loss. My thoughts are with you.

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  33. Massimo, well articulated. I had much the same thoughts at my father's funeral. He was not particularly religious, nor was my mother, so Mom and I planned a secular funeral service at the funeral home. After the funeral director spoke a few nice words about a man he didn't know, my cousin's husband asked to speak. He sees himself as some sort of lay minister in the Catholic Church and decided to give the ceremony a religious bent. After a bunch of hail Jesus & Mary and asking everyone to bow in prayer I was quite pissed but I held my tongue so as not to make a scene at a solemn time. We've seen my cousin and her husband socially a few times since then and I've been polite but I haven't quite gotten over my displeasure at his ruining the event.

    On a related note, you wrote "... illusion that we will all soon see Clara again."

    I've always wondered which version of the dearly departed that people expect to see in heaven. The 10 year old version... middle-aged version... elderly version... exactly as they were when they died? And whichever version they pick what, besides wishful thinking, gives them the idea that that is what they will find?
    Ah well, you just can't argue with silly.

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  34. I often feel how horrible it would seem to lose yourself slowly. Losing memories of your loved ones, trying to remember only to escape it. Finally losing yourself, and not realizing

    Ultimately, you reach the point where you have no awareness of having lost anything. You then become oblivious to the tragedy that's affecting everyone but you.

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  35. Massimo,
    I, likewise, offer you and your family my condolences. I disagree with you (surprise) about existence ending upon death. SOMETHING of us remains somewhere. Whether you call what remains a spirit, life energy, soul, or some other name, it is, I suppose, something like the essence of us. The most forward thinking physicists believe that there may be a total of 13 dimensions. I don't really think these other dimensions are empty, do you? The evidence recorded supporting the claims of the paranormal is voluminous and astounding. Ocaam's
    Razor should be reversed in certain cases where there is SO much good evidence for something that one must provide extraordinary evidence to support the dismissal of said evidence. Here is one little thing I recorded in theater here. The voice speaks in what I think is French. I was with two teenagers who do not speak French, lol! I have about 15 more evps from this one night. EVPs ARE real, to that, there is NO argument! What they are, we don't know. Yet.
    http://www.4shared.com/file/234596570/b1ef5354/French_Gee_Gee.html

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  36. Massimo,
    I, likewise, offer you and your family my condolences. I disagree with you (surprise) about existence ending upon death. SOMETHING of us remains somewhere. Whether you call what remains a spirit, life energy, soul, or some other name, it is, I suppose, something like the essence of us. The most forward thinking physicists believe that there may be a total of 13 dimensions. I don't really think these other dimensions are empty, do you? The evidence recorded supporting the claims of the paranormal is voluminous and astounding. Ocaam's
    Razor should be reversed in certain cases where there is SO much good evidence for something that one must provide extraordinary evidence to support the dismissal of said evidence. Here is one little thing I recorded in theater here. The voice speaks in what I think is French. I was with two teenagers who do not speak French, lol! I have about 15 more evps from this one night. EVPs ARE real, to that, there is NO argument! What they are, we don't know. Yet.
    http://www.4shared.com/file/234596570/b1ef5354/French_Gee_Gee.html

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  37. James,

    why would those dimensions (*if* they exist) be filled with my grandmother? And no, there is no evidence for paranormal phenomena.

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  38. I've never identified myself as an atheist, only because it's the answer to a question I don't ask myself. But it amounts to the same thing. I stumbled on this blog and will definitely come back, thank you!

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  39. No evidence? That is absolutely laughable! No evidence? ARE YOU KIDDING? You could study the evidence the rest of your life and you would never get through it! Most, not all scientists (and philosophers and others involved with secular academia)refuse to look at the evidence because it would set their suppositions, statements of "truth", and 100 of years of research, etc. on its head. No evidence? Truly, my friend, I'm still laughing. Not at you, but at the ignorance of many who claim to be wise. At the close mindedness of those who claim to be accepting and at the contempt shown by those who claim to be supportive of new ideas. Tell you what, my friend, come on an investigation with me to say, Waverly Hills in Kentucky. Go in as a sceptic, as many have, and leave as a believer. You could get a great book deal out of the deal! The headlines; Noted Philosopher PROVES That the Paranormal Is Just Normal!
    Peace

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  40. James appears to be another paranoid conspiracy theorist. He has no evidence to talk about, so he refers to it by reference and then mocks those who do actual work.

    James Randi offers a million dollars to those who can produce it.

    James, your nonsense spew is so juvenile and pathetic. Put up or shut up.

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  41. Massimo wrote:

    There is no mystery of death. Death is part of the natural cycle of life, and once the particular combination of atoms that makes our existence possible decays beyond repair we are gone. Sad but natural, no spooky “mystery” involved, no need to prey on people’s emotions and hopes.

    I wasn't there to hear what the priest said, but given only the information that he referred to "the mystery of death," I would make the charitable assumption that he was speaking of the difficulty of considering death from the point of view of one who dies rather than simply death as something that befalls "people," considered in the third person. See "The Death of Ivan Ilich" for a brief but vivid presentation of the difference. I can conceive of my death as an event in the world, but not as an event in my life. One can say that this is simply because my death is not an event in my life but the cessation of all such events. I think that is perfectly correct as far as it goes, but it is only human to feel frustrated by such an answer, and to feel a persistent urge to conceive of the inconceivable -- to try to grasp death as something that we, as it were, live through. Like you, I do not have much respect for the reaction to this difficulty that consists in denying the reality of death. But I would not disparage, much less deny, the difficulty itself, and it is possible that it is what the priest meant by "the mystery of death."

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  42. I happened upon this blog while googling something random that brought me here. I read "About my grandmother's death" and read the comments. I was once a practicing Catholic, then atheist, now unsure. I find myself constantly questioning existance "why are we here? where are we going?" etc. I have to agree with James, there is LOADS of NDE and paranormal evidence, enough to make someone who is honestly seeking confused and dizzy. I also agree that if you are "open minded" how can you deny the existance of another life after this one, do you REALLY have any proof? I certainly dont. If you do, Id be happy for you to share it with us, as I for one am lost in the looking.

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  43. " have to agree with James, there is LOADS of NDE and paranormal evidence, enough to make someone who is honestly seeking confused and dizzy. I also agree that if you are "open minded" how can you deny the existance of another life after this one, do you REALLY have any proof? I certainly dont."

    It has been shown that these can be stimulated by either drugs or manipulation of brain states by electromagnetic means. Most of these are likely due to natural bio-chemical changes in the brain.

    I have had my heart stop 4 times and never had a NDE.

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