tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post7637296620483955528..comments2023-10-10T08:02:18.073-04:00Comments on Rationally Speaking: Rationally Speaking podcast: Neil deGrasse Tyson on Why He Doesn't Call Himself an AtheistUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger81125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-90670131784099378072014-03-22T12:32:57.424-04:002014-03-22T12:32:57.424-04:00Wow, I never realized how similarly deGrasse Tyson...Wow, I never realized how similarly deGrasse Tyson and I think. His entire position on atheism is a near mirror to my own. I've even used the non-golfer example before (though I didn't use specifically golf in mine), and I've said on many occasions that the problem is not faith but dogma (which the NA movement has no shortage of). I think I may go watch the new Cosmos now.Todd S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10212986450069403803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-26693170004907208302014-03-17T21:28:56.134-04:002014-03-17T21:28:56.134-04:00agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive.agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12223613355827595406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-33220814378219064682014-03-14T03:39:36.698-04:002014-03-14T03:39:36.698-04:00"he explained that he avoids the label "..."he explained that he avoids the label "atheist" because it causes people to make all sorts of unflattering (and often untrue) assumptions."<br /><br />So now he's riding the euphemism treadmill.Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00529468338173030097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-60066819013306856722014-03-14T00:54:49.121-04:002014-03-14T00:54:49.121-04:00I'm apprehensive about listening to this episo...I'm apprehensive about listening to this episode after reading that they launch into a discussion about the philosophy of language. I'm sure I'm overreacting. It just seems like every discussion about what to label yourself has to travel down this giant philosophical rabbit hole that ends where you started. Then again, maybe I should just listen before complaining about things I haven't even heard yet...Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11179028963261156731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-54341003429271265872014-03-13T21:59:50.833-04:002014-03-13T21:59:50.833-04:00If God is just is there would still be those who w...If God is just is there would still be those who would say: is not!<br />Children, <br />== MJAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01897595473268353450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-60546112944290463432014-03-13T12:31:24.244-04:002014-03-13T12:31:24.244-04:00In retrospect, when discussing gods, agency seems ...In retrospect, when discussing gods, agency seems the most salient point. Theologians run the gamut from advocating gods as only products of the human mind - existing internally - and symbolizing human aspirations to existing externally but never interacting to existing externally and interacting constantly. No wonder it is so confusing - tangled in definitions of real, exist, creation, revelation and so on. Perhaps, Massimo's take that gods are incoherent is the only one that makes sense; we are more likely to be discussing something for which we don't have a common language.michael fugatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01762576964110603209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-82001526350308955842014-03-13T09:13:35.129-04:002014-03-13T09:13:35.129-04:00Note, the above was intended as a reply to a diffe...Note, the above was intended as a reply to a different commentDisagreeable Mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15258557849869963650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-1937047340368479362014-03-13T09:12:14.793-04:002014-03-13T09:12:14.793-04:00I think you're making Neil's point. He is ...I think you're making Neil's point. He is an atheist, and he is an African American, but maybe he prefers being thought of as a complex, unique person than either. Labels are problematic for exactly the reason you highlight.<br /><br />That said, I think some labels are still too useful to ignore.Disagreeable Mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15258557849869963650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-40456627732541725592014-03-13T08:47:19.196-04:002014-03-13T08:47:19.196-04:00There are stereotypes about every group. For examp...There are stereotypes about every group. For example, African Americans are the most religiously devout racial group in the nation. An overwhelming 87% of African Americans identify with a religious group. If you don't fit that stereotype, then what, you're not African American?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-59607571206564286762014-03-12T16:56:52.110-04:002014-03-12T16:56:52.110-04:00I think when SAP said honest he meant forthright.I think when SAP said honest he meant forthright.Disagreeable Mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15258557849869963650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-32380949780628766052014-03-12T14:39:04.559-04:002014-03-12T14:39:04.559-04:00I'm an atheist that also enjoys Jesus Christ S...I'm an atheist that also enjoys Jesus Christ Superstar. And I know many many more that do, as well. Not sure what in the world Neil thinks that's significant. <br /><br />It seems he's upset because of a few snarky internet comments. Vichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10780628358292616861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-14010963229736756122014-03-12T14:10:45.725-04:002014-03-12T14:10:45.725-04:00Neil: Watched the first episode yesterday on my ta...Neil: Watched the first episode yesterday on my tablet and the art and storytelling was superb. As a scientist what we all are is storytellers, especially with You standing against the backdrop of the cosmos. In science we tell the story empirically and mathematically, but it is a story nonetheless. Human storytelling is as old as the campfire. The Bible is a system of stories which not only tell a cosmic history but also include stories of human social and psychological behavior told through the eyes of a tribal people who found the monotheistic god. It is the philosophers passion to make sense of it all.......Good Luck<br /><br />BTW Seth could have cast the cardinals more in a Peter Griffin character, " C'mon Giordano you gotta see the pickle we're in, we'd hafta rewrite all bibles.....so why don't ya just say ah ah maybe ahhhh...."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-72463174010921642972014-03-12T11:39:24.301-04:002014-03-12T11:39:24.301-04:00@Robin
I don't think he is an agnostic in the...@Robin<br /><i> I don't think he is an agnostic in the way I understand the term.</i><br />Well , there seems to be a view that Agnosticism implies you are 50/50 on the question of God and the more you move in one direction or the other the more you move towards being an a/theist - That's not the usage Im familiar with and its not why I would call myself agnostic (It isn't how we use the term in different contexts either - if I say a programming language like java is platform agnostic , it doesn't mean it works 50% on linux!). There's also the "but of course we can never be 100% sure about anything so everyone is a technical agnostic so the term is redundant" - yes but thats not the only reason for agnosticism.<br />I'd say I'm agnostic for the simple reason , I cannot come up with a hypothesis as to what would count as evidence for a being that, by definition, exists outside our universe (and how it would interact with it - given that it exists outside the universe) - when I cant even frame that , much less evaluate it , I have to be agnostic on the question of Gods existence. <br />God's existence however is an irrelevant question , imo.<br />It only becomes relevant when you introduce religion into the mix - where now it vaguely defines God , the desires of this God and the actions that we must perform in order to please this God or curry favors from it. And I'd say that Im new- atheistic towards religion. The question of religion has been settled to my satisfaction.Deepak Shettyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04324456947895848248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-89855976501190717662014-03-12T11:28:02.659-04:002014-03-12T11:28:02.659-04:00@SelfAwarePatterns
i did - I dont see a difference...@SelfAwarePatterns<br />i did - I dont see a difference - but Im happy to take your word that you meant something elseDeepak Shettyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04324456947895848248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-63316294640441575772014-03-12T11:24:34.107-04:002014-03-12T11:24:34.107-04:00"Apatheist," as either Massimo or Julia ..."Apatheist," as either Massimo or Julia suggested in the episode, although I don't think you heard. However, I don't know what's more insulting to a sensitive theist: saying that you don't care about a crucial part of their identity or that you don't believe in the major entity in their life? Either way, I understand your reasons for not wanting to be associated with the new atheists, but I do think labels are nice. I think you're an atheist based on your disbelief in gods, and I think that's what most people who know what atheist means would say you are too, so I hope you're not offended. <br /><br />Your dictionary point is odd to me. If someone says because you're a scientist you must hate Jesus, you may appropriately say, "Actually, a scientist is simply someone who does science." This is both descriptive and prescriptive and I don't know how you would disentangle those components.<br /><br />Thanks for being such a fantastic science communicator. I loved the first episode of Cosmos and look forward to seeing the rest of the season.<br /><br />Respectfully Submitted,<br />Jake ZielsdorfAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09993148116270015124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-39402149623838411582014-03-12T09:44:02.765-04:002014-03-12T09:44:02.765-04:00Deepak,
I'd encourage you to reread the entire...Deepak,<br />I'd encourage you to reread the entire sentence that fragment came from.SelfAwarePatternshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11856665627652130336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-64986024609326554032014-03-12T08:52:39.653-04:002014-03-12T08:52:39.653-04:00Reading the comments here demonstrates his point.
...Reading the comments here demonstrates his point.<br />There is so much ignorance and wilful deception when it comes to the term atheist.<br />What I find funny is the level of self-deception and the attempt to look reasonable while holding very unreasonable beliefs.<br />Like: how can you be atheist and theist? Or not theist and not atheist? <br />Either you believe something or you don't. It's digital. The cop-out of agnosticism doesn't work here either.<br />While I find it incredibly easy to understand that an atheist only lacks a belief regarding gods and carries no further baggage with it, people try to inflate this unnecessarily to a worldview or a belief system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-48687998456098541042014-03-12T07:18:47.563-04:002014-03-12T07:18:47.563-04:00Robin, I suspect he would say he was a Huxley agno...Robin, I suspect he would say he was a Huxley agnostic, not the careful neutrality that most people take for agnosticism today. But that's the problem with these types of discussions. There are differing conceptions of what Greek words like 'agnostic' or 'atheist' mean, and despite what many insist, they carry political implications. It's why I avoid labeling anyone with them unless it's a label they choose for themselves.SelfAwarePatternshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11856665627652130336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-13935117628796379492014-03-12T04:23:24.788-04:002014-03-12T04:23:24.788-04:00There is a contact form on my blog, which you can ...There is a contact form on my blog, which you can access by clicking my name.Disagreeable Mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15258557849869963650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-29950805529523798912014-03-12T04:02:54.585-04:002014-03-12T04:02:54.585-04:00The basic issue is when people attach too much bag...The basic issue is when people attach too much baggage to a label, like equating atheism with anti-theism or with Communism, do you correct them or do you accept their distorted definition and try to find a new label?<br />But what if they're attaching baggage not to the label but to what it represents, like equating disbelief in God with devil worship? Then, no matter what you call disbelief in God, it won't get rid of the baggage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-32752171051787577292014-03-12T02:20:12.736-04:002014-03-12T02:20:12.736-04:00Tyson’s stupefaction regarding anti-golfism misses...Tyson’s stupefaction regarding anti-golfism misses a serious point. If you’ve had some version of theism rammed down your throat your whole life or have had to cope in a society whose majority blinding endorses some version of it (Anglicanism, Catholicism, Baptist, Pentecostal, etc.,) you’d be hell bent of defining yourself in oppositional terms if it didn’t so happen to be your cup of tea. Imagine your father is Tiger Woods and his esteem for you rests squarely on your adherence to and interest in the sport- I’d be taking a nine iron to his head. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04369264537906109842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-83631767424014084092014-03-12T01:53:39.532-04:002014-03-12T01:53:39.532-04:00Thanks, all of you, for your sane thread of commen...Thanks, all of you, for your sane thread of comments regarding my appearance on Rationally Speaking.<br /><br />Dare I suggest that my interview has been overanalyzed by many of you? At no time was I trying to be deep. My point is simple and direct: If I tell people I am an atheist, most of them (>70%) will presume and assign a portfolio of incorrect ideas about my thoughts, behaviors, and outlooks -- ideas that would be mostly accurate for any new atheist. Because of this, I need a different word to describe me, or, as i've said before, my preference is no word at all.<br /><br />And, may I remind some people that the (English) dictionary does not define words. Instead, after a time-delay, it describes words as they have come to be used.<br /><br />Respectfully Submitted,<br />Neil deGrasse Tyson, New York CityNeil deGrasse Tysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09593754593226623421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-72305540962741794642014-03-12T01:42:34.818-04:002014-03-12T01:42:34.818-04:00disagreeable me
I dont think Tyson's view are ...disagreeable me<br />I dont think Tyson's view are as clearcut because I remember he had answered somewhat differently a while ago - he didnt want to be associated with the label "atheist" - not "new atheist". I'd rather there was a term for a-religious since that would cover most of us.I can find common ground with you on the confrontational and self righteous front - though the closest label I'd choose for myself is agnosticDeepak Shettyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04324456947895848248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-38156330945228360342014-03-12T00:41:20.035-04:002014-03-12T00:41:20.035-04:00Self aware patterns
I did quote your comment where...Self aware patterns<br />I did quote your comment where you say that non believers like Tyson would cower rather than be honest about tier views - Id say that my comment is a fair comment - though if you meant something else then great!Deepak Shettyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04324456947895848248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-92233483026003961552014-03-12T00:26:20.740-04:002014-03-12T00:26:20.740-04:00Excellent episode.
If I am the one who completes ...Excellent episode.<br /><br />If I am the one who completes the ‘Final’ physics theory which describes the Nature to its last detail, I will immediately realize three facts when the last period is dotted on that paper.<br />a. I ‘am’ the inventor of this ‘Final’ physics model.<br />b. The details of this perfect model ‘was’ implemented for creating a something (which we call it as ‘this’ universe today) about 15 billion years ago by, by, by, …, not by me.<br />c. Jesus the God takes up ‘zero’ (absolutely zero) space in my invention, this perfect physics model.<br /><br />With these three facts, I will have no problem to label myself as a die-hard non-atheist (with all the denotations and connotations that the word atheist carries).<br />Tienzenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05842156512465678309noreply@blogger.com