tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post6189359934605230777..comments2023-10-10T08:02:18.073-04:00Comments on Rationally Speaking: Christians complain atheism does not meet advertising standardsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-82232411736553459672009-09-03T18:55:39.409-04:002009-09-03T18:55:39.409-04:00This is a sad year for christian online advertisin...This is a sad year for <a href="http://www.faithadnet.com/" rel="nofollow">christian online advertising</a>...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03350096024268976858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-10325732501089820662009-01-23T03:35:00.000-05:002009-01-23T03:35:00.000-05:00Hey, Ellis WeinerI just bought your book, used, fr...Hey, Ellis Weiner<BR/><BR/>I just bought your book, used, from an Amazon affiliate. I look forward to reading it.<BR/><BR/>Regret to inform that they charged me 1 cent for it (U$3.99 for shipping). Heh.J. Marcelo Alveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09967299561849915314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-56099021279565664842009-01-14T16:39:00.000-05:002009-01-14T16:39:00.000-05:00I'll be in Seattle till next week.I'll be in Seattle till next week.calianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06702074438747578526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-52291734331643781492009-01-14T13:25:00.000-05:002009-01-14T13:25:00.000-05:00Sheldon: Explain, where is hell?It's in you heart,...Sheldon: <B>Explain, where is hell?</B><BR/>It's in you heart, Sheldon... In your heart! :-P<BR/><BR/>Hey, Cal!<BR/><BR/>Let's do it like this: after you die and go to hell, could you please call us back to tell how it is? Then I will start getting impressed by the concept.J. Marcelo Alveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09967299561849915314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-4627600517644467912009-01-14T13:23:00.000-05:002009-01-14T13:23:00.000-05:00Since Dawkins has been mentioned... I've just been...Since Dawkins has been mentioned... I've just been sent a link to an interview he gave to the LA Times, talking about the bus campaign and other stuff. Not the most impressive title: <A HREF="http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-dawkins-qa12-2009jan12,0,1625954,full.story" REL="nofollow">Richard Dawkins on board with a pro-atheist message</A>.J. Marcelo Alveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09967299561849915314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-55452069801827494602009-01-13T18:00:00.000-05:002009-01-13T18:00:00.000-05:00Caliana,There is an obvious problem with the Pasca...Caliana,<BR/><BR/>There is an obvious problem with the Pascal's wager argument, which you seem to have been making. <BR/><BR/>OK, you're facing death, and worried that maybe there is a Hell, and if you don't make nice to the Sky Fairy you'll "go there." But which sky fairy? Do you make a sacrifice to some pagan god? Do you try to die in battle so as to go to Valhalla? (or Sto-Vo-Kor, if you want to be Klingon in the afterlife)<BR/><BR/>I am reminded of the joke where some guy is being given a tour of Heaven, and is told that he has to be quiet as they pass a particular wall, because the [Catholics, Mormons, whatever] are on the other side, and they think they are the only ones there.<BR/><BR/>On a more practical note, isn't it the British ASA that recently refused to rule that a fertilizer company was committing fraud when they said that their "organic" fertilizer was "chemical-free?" I don't look forward to their interpretation of the likelihood of the existence of a god or gods.John Krehbielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10078079001156415151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-25344362350145733442009-01-13T12:38:00.000-05:002009-01-13T12:38:00.000-05:00Sheldonhttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vwpm1G5pVho&a...Sheldon<BR/>http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vwpm1G5pVho&feature=related<BR/><BR/>The preacher that I mentioned above explains why you think you can't tolerate people who stand for the Bible and its gospel. Paul Washer says firstly that "its a scandal". It becomes a scandal because people can't appreciate the thought of being humbled or corrected in the way that they are living. A greater % of the world just simply hates humility. And if that is the way it is, then the Bible must be accurate in its assessment of human nature. And if the Bible is accurate, then I can take all the angst and unhappy feelings that you toss my direction, even if nothing ever changes as far as you're concerned. <BR/><BR/>I could explain things to you about Hell,(people who have seen what they believe was hell before they die, etc.) but since you have already made you mind up, what help would it be to you? Is it just going to harden your heart, as you suggested, and cause you convince yourself that your looking forward to it..or what? <BR/><BR/>If you consider that rational, I'd rather not be "rational" then.calianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06702074438747578526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-45074742023237598852009-01-13T07:46:00.000-05:002009-01-13T07:46:00.000-05:00Ok Cal,Explain, where is hell? Where does hell ge...Ok Cal,<BR/>Explain, where is hell? Where does hell get its energy source? How do we know, other than the supposed authority of the Bible, that it exists, that people are there, and will go there? Are they there physcially, or as spirits? If as spirits, how do they feel suffering? If as regular physical beings, how do they survive in conditions not suitable for human life?<BR/><BR/>And tell us why would an allegedly loving and compassionate God condemn people to eternal suffering? Even for things like disbelief, yet forgive others for much graver offenses?<BR/><BR/>I know that bearing false witness is a supposed sin. Bearing ineffective witness would be a sin you commit. The more you yap about your religion here, the more you are considered a joke! <BR/><BR/>If heaven is populated by insufferable zealots like you, hell would be a blessing.Sheldonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03743116454273042629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-58017986529561133952009-01-13T00:12:00.000-05:002009-01-13T00:12:00.000-05:00"From this you get a hybridized, not truly christi..."From this you get a hybridized, not truly christian belief that seriously disorients people so they have a very difficult time determining what truth is supposed to look like."<BR/><BR/>LOL! As if Christianity itself wasn't a hybrid belief system.The Science Pundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14497373296651049624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-89266904922442289322009-01-12T20:07:00.000-05:002009-01-12T20:07:00.000-05:00"That's the same as saying, "We can't expect you t..."That's the same as saying, "We can't expect you to believe in Hell if Bible teachers haven't brainwashed you to believe it."<BR/><BR/>NO, its not even close to the same. And very few actually teach on Hell today anyway. Except for the preacher I listed websites for here. <BR/><BR/>My husband taught about false teachers on Sunday. II Peter 1-2. <BR/><BR/>To be considered a "false teacher" it is not like they would come directly into the church appearing to teach something other than the Bible. It will seem like what they have to say has something to do with the Bible. The Catholic Church is particularly bad about this. I note in a lot of countries the Catholic church turns a blind eye to the fact that Catholics often mix their pagan (voodoo, animistic, witchcraft) beliefs with beliefs and teachings of the church. From this you get a hybridized, not truly christian belief that seriously disorients people so they have a very difficult time determining what truth is supposed to look like. And if you don't know what truth is supposed to look like, you can be brainwashed. <BR/><BR/>As a matter of fact, one can even be totally brain washed by Atheism. I have a case and point. Do you want a four page explanation? :)calianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06702074438747578526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-11441277288551426122009-01-12T17:19:00.000-05:002009-01-12T17:19:00.000-05:00But yet, Hell somehow seems quite plausible for pe...But yet, Hell somehow seems quite plausible for people who normally would not believe and think it is not a credible idea, but they seem to know exactly who deserves to go there. <BR/><BR/>Strange logic, for sure. <BR/><BR/>"Bernie Madoff 'in hell' hot sauce launched"<BR/>Telegraph.co.uk<BR/><BR/>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/bernard-madoff/4214439/Bernie-Madoff-in-hell-hot-sauce-launched.htmlcalianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06702074438747578526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-72311575550929695202009-01-12T16:41:00.000-05:002009-01-12T16:41:00.000-05:00I don't see that any judgment rationally follows j...I don't see that any judgment rationally follows just because one believes that it is important to be kind to others and to be intellectually honest. Kindness to others makes the world nicer for me and the people I like. Intellectual honesty gives us a way to approach things that actually allows us to learn things and solve problems, you know, like how to make airplanes fly and cars go zoom.<BR/><BR/>There's no other reason needed. <BR/><BR/>The bible, and indeed any holy book, is a set of rules for people who need to be told rather than to discover. And they can keep it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-41800418569512599072009-01-12T15:18:00.000-05:002009-01-12T15:18:00.000-05:00JF: "You also can't expect us to believe in Hell i...JF: "You also can't expect us to believe in Hell if there's no evidence for the existence of such a place."<BR/><BR/>If deeds, accuracy and ways of approaching evidence matters, so too it follows that there must be a Judgment with a capital "J". <BR/><BR/>I'm not a gambler tho so.... <BR/><BR/> If reason and the Bible points to the great potential that every single person who ever lived will be judged, I believe it. <BR/><BR/>And I don't really care if some people, including some preachers, downplay the importance of it...if I thought that there was the most remote possibility that anyone I knew might go to hell, what kind of person would I be to say "oh. well..too bad for them" ? <BR/><BR/>NOT on your life. <BR/><BR/>Even tho we often don't agree on various philosophical stuff I don't want any of you face God unprepared.calianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06702074438747578526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-8180713827045191422009-01-12T07:59:00.000-05:002009-01-12T07:59:00.000-05:00All, I have detailed my objections to Dawkins' amb...All, I have detailed my objections to Dawkins' ambiguous statements about science and religion in an article last year in American Atheist magazine (the issue with my picture on the cover... :) I'd be happy to send it to anyone interested.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099460671669064269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-46243908149759687972009-01-12T06:37:00.000-05:002009-01-12T06:37:00.000-05:00J.,I take it one further. I typically write "gods"...J.,<BR/><BR/>I take it one further. I typically write "gods", because 99.99% of the time no one can even define the term well enough to make me believe it's a possibility - it's always a bit like claiming "Flarfs" exist and never actually saying what a "Flarf" is.<BR/><BR/>Caliana said, "We can't expect you to believe in a place called Hell if many Bible teachers don't teach on it."<BR/><BR/>That's the same as saying, "We can't expect you to believe in Hell if Bible teachers haven't brainwashed you to believe it."Kyle Szklenskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03837443487933011691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-75237655875197979442009-01-11T23:23:00.000-05:002009-01-11T23:23:00.000-05:00Nevertheless, saying "there probably are no gods" ...<B>Nevertheless, saying "there probably are no gods" is what's technically true.</B><BR/><BR/>Good reminder. I try to always say/write "gods", in the plural and not capitalized, when talking about these subjects. Gotta be an equal opportunity heathen, after all, in this PC world... :-)<BR/><BR/>Oh, well, and there's also the hope that the plural will make some people think about it for a moment.J. Marcelo Alveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09967299561849915314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-27669062643116539202009-01-11T22:24:00.000-05:002009-01-11T22:24:00.000-05:00"The reality is that science cannot disprove the s..."The reality is that science cannot disprove the supernatural, but that a philosophical argument informed by sound science can, in fact, reduce the likelihood of the supernatural to the very, very improbable indeed."<BR/><BR/>Fantastic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-75727915949284438252009-01-11T22:10:00.000-05:002009-01-11T22:10:00.000-05:00It's funny because no one extends to the other god...It's funny because no one extends to the other gods in the world's pantheon the degree of PC agnosticism we extend to the Judeo-Xian deity. Does any Xian theologian take seriously such characters as Shiva for instance? Pure mythology they'd say. Joseph Campbell rightly said that other people's religion is mythology, ours is true religion. <BR/><BR/>Nevertheless, saying "there probably are no gods" is what's technically true. Although I wish we could put a number on that, and one that we can back up. My personal subjective probabilities are: That there is at least one transcendent being is 0.1%. That it is Xian variety with the incarnation and all that yarn is 10^-12.erebusnyxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11988464368427565221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-57797458218339527902009-01-11T21:52:00.000-05:002009-01-11T21:52:00.000-05:00I'll go ahead and add a third voice to Morten and ...I'll go ahead and add a third voice to Morten and iarnuocon in that I don't read Dawkins like you do. I'll also add that I saw an interview with Ariane Sherine (in one of those videos) where she said that the original sign proposal didn't have the word <I>probably</I>, but the ad agency refused to put it on buses so she had to change it to include that word.The Science Pundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14497373296651049624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-28345608382535270962009-01-11T21:28:00.000-05:002009-01-11T21:28:00.000-05:00You also can't expect us to believe in Hell if the...<EM>You also can't expect us to believe in Hell if there's no evidence for the existence of such a place.</EM><BR/><BR/>The real absurdity is thinking that our tiny speck of a planet in this vast universe is somehow the central front in a cosmic battle between good and evil.Tommykeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14751182125861177379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-56641833051236230122009-01-11T20:31:00.000-05:002009-01-11T20:31:00.000-05:00Actually, the BHA hasn't got it "exactly right", M...Actually, the BHA hasn't got it "exactly right", Massimo; the world "probabnly" should be parenthetical, surely...?Kimpatsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06156184889287692016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-84225348106814376192009-01-11T19:56:00.000-05:002009-01-11T19:56:00.000-05:00Sadly australia, a more secular society , is at th...Sadly australia, a more secular society , is at the whim of the advertising companies themselves, who will not allow the "atheist bus" campaign here..<BR/><BR/>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/26/2430714.htmAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11230402160317184139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-51814366237618418682009-01-11T16:44:00.000-05:002009-01-11T16:44:00.000-05:00Just for info, a similar campaign has been launche...Just for info, a similar campaign has been launched in Barcelona and Madrid, Spain, recently.EGMRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12571968656247125515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-49390901901822146912009-01-11T12:45:00.000-05:002009-01-11T12:45:00.000-05:00While Green is an utter loon, Clifford Longley is ...<B>While Green is an utter loon, Clifford Longley is a respected religion correspondent and liberal Catholic, formerly of The Times and The Tablet.</B><BR/><BR/>It is often the case that people will show their truest colours in times of "difficulty", innit?J. Marcelo Alveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09967299561849915314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-53607085677510613582009-01-11T12:33:00.000-05:002009-01-11T12:33:00.000-05:00Just for laughs, would love to see a 3rd bus ad ca...Just for laughs, would love to see a 3rd bus ad campaign, funded by anonymous, invisible sources denying the existence of "factual statements that can be substantiated". The post-logicians would would advise us to ".... get out there and keep the BS coming"DaveShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15840516954793215700noreply@blogger.com