tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post4062221285417534966..comments2023-10-10T08:02:18.073-04:00Comments on Rationally Speaking: Texas near 400 hitsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-71444493774347003682007-09-14T13:44:00.000-04:002007-09-14T13:44:00.000-04:00"don't you think it unkind to post bible verses on..."don't you think it unkind to post bible verses on a rationalist blog in such quantity?"<BR/><BR/>It never occurred to me that it might be unkind. Actually if one is going to bother to respond on a matter it is best (and most kind) to be comprehensive. And am I supposed to automatically know that all rationalists would never use the Bible for pos. evidence tho they might choose to rail against it?<BR/><BR/>I'd be being soft on myself and y'all for me to just to assume that.<BR/> <BR/>Don't you believe that Massimo would tend to take the evidence wherever it may lead? And no matter what the evidence happens to be?<BR/><BR/>I think that is what he would do. <BR/><BR/>you should not be afraid of this.<BR/>calAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-6468887668024504752007-09-14T12:44:00.000-04:002007-09-14T12:44:00.000-04:00Cal --That, of course, presumes that god exists at...Cal --<BR/><BR/>That, of course, presumes that god exists at all. And, with all due respect, don't you think it unkind to post bible verses on a rationalist blog in such quantity? I do have a Bible, you know. You can supply me the chapter and verse, I'll happily look it up.<BR/><BR/>Have peace.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-30928024242002658322007-09-13T13:07:00.000-04:002007-09-13T13:07:00.000-04:00T, Tho the Bible is pro cap punishment, (see botto...T, <BR/>Tho the Bible is pro cap punishment, (see bottom of verses) it surprisingly does recognize subtleties in human behavior and reasons why some things may happen and makes adjustments for the "situation". I think that most people might not expect that. <BR/><BR/>Num 35:22 <BR/><BR/>“ ‘But if without hostility someone suddenly shoves another or throws something at him unintentionally<BR/>Num 35:23 <BR/><BR/>or, without seeing him, drops a stone on him that could kill him, and he dies, then since he was not his enemy and he did not intend to harm him,<BR/>Num 35:24 <BR/><BR/>the assembly must judge between him and the avenger of blood according to these regulations.<BR/>Num 35:25 <BR/><BR/>The assembly must protect the one accused of murder from the avenger of blood and send him back to the city of refuge to which he fled. He must stay there until the death of the high priest, who was anointed with the holy oil.<BR/>Num 35:26 <BR/><BR/>“ ‘But if the accused ever goes outside the limits of the city of refuge to which he has fled<BR/>Num 35:27 <BR/><BR/>and the avenger of blood finds him outside the city, the avenger of blood may kill the accused without being guilty of murder.<BR/>Num 35:28 <BR/><BR/>The accused must stay in his city of refuge until the death of the high priest; only after the death of the high priest may he return to his own property.<BR/>Num 35:29 <BR/><BR/>“ ‘These are to be legal requirements for you throughout the generations to come, wherever you live.<BR/>Num 35:30 <BR/><BR/>“ ‘Anyone who kills a person is to be put to death as a murderer only on the testimony of witnesses. But no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness.<BR/>Num 35:31 <BR/><BR/>“ ‘Do not accept a ransom for the life of a murderer, who deserves to die. He must surely be put to death." (NIV) <BR/><BR/>I would maintain that tho it is not a popular notion these days, God is Just. <BR/><BR/>http://www.blueletterbible.org <BR/>calAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-1167869767612752032007-09-06T22:37:00.000-04:002007-09-06T22:37:00.000-04:00Capital punishment certainly deters recidivism.Ver...<I>Capital punishment certainly deters recidivism.</I><BR/><BR/>Very true, if a truism.<BR/><BR/>But then again, the capital punishment could solve the poverty, cancer and obesity problems too, if you think of it. And dead smart arses make no bad jokes either. :O)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-20336173798396686212007-09-05T11:51:00.000-04:002007-09-05T11:51:00.000-04:00"Cal, where is your evidence that capital punishme..."Cal, where is your evidence that capital punishment acts as a deterrent? You don't have any, because there isn't any. Countries with the death penalty have far higher violent crime rates than those without, so the causes and deterrence to violent crime clearly lie elswhere."<BR/><BR/>Capital punishment certainly deters recidivism. Also, would you please support your claims about the correlation between crime and cap. punishment, say, f'rinstance country, year, and source of your numbers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-695836057665151722007-09-02T03:23:00.000-04:002007-09-02T03:23:00.000-04:00Cal, where is your evidence that capital punishmen...Cal, where is your evidence that capital punishment acts as a deterrent? You don't have any, because there isn't any. Countries with the death penalty have far higher violent crime rates than those without, so the causes and deterrence to violent crime clearly lie elswhere.<BR/>If it's state-sanctioned evenge you want, thugh, always remember the words of Britain's longest-serving hangman, Albert Pierrepoint: "All those in favour of capital punishment agree that it should not apply to anyone, but no two people can agree on who should be executed and who should not."<BR/>Telling wrods from a man who hanged over 600 people, including Nazi war criminals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-53220000425478112622007-09-01T12:36:00.000-04:002007-09-01T12:36:00.000-04:00"With the death penalty we never have to wonder if..."With the death penalty we never have to wonder if the worst of our violent offenders ever will hit the streets again."<BR/><BR/>And if the wrong guy gets the death penalty, there will never ever be a chance of setting things right.<BR/><BR/>You're also probably right Cal that a good portion of these violent criminals have no concience to bother them till the end of their days. It is unfortunate that there is no perfect justice.Sheldonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03743116454273042629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-76937838928554077932007-09-01T10:26:00.000-04:002007-09-01T10:26:00.000-04:00"LOL"Yeah, its all just hysterical. There is alw..."LOL"<BR/><BR/>Yeah, its all just hysterical. <BR/><BR/>There is always the risk of a technical glitch that leads to the early or wrongful release of a seriously violent criminal. With the death penalty we never have to wonder if the worst of our violent offenders ever will hit the streets again. If it has happened once, it has happened too many times. <BR/><BR/>It also sends the message to men like I described, that there will be no three squares and bed for the rest of your life (ie. he gets taken care of by the state never has to pay a bill or take responsibility for anything). The thing you don't understand about most of the guys in prison and some of the women, is that most of them claim that they were not really responsible for "x". Given that mindset and the fact that they often seem to convince themselves of it, I don't see that most of these fellas ever are really tormented and regretful for what they have done. My husband and my families have both been "victims" if you will, of violent crime. And more often than not the majority of the sympathies or allowances go towards the offender. <BR/><BR/>You cannot tell me that enough is not done to keep these guys from death row. I don't believe it. I can't even believe that a man who tried to beat another guy's head in (as I mentioned last week) with a baseball bat (intending to kill him, I'd say) is out with retraining orders against him. Big deal. Our state is so stinking permissive it's ridiculous. <BR/><BR/>calAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-19534791686375276442007-09-01T00:21:00.000-04:002007-09-01T00:21:00.000-04:00J.Yeah, you're right. I was considering that litt...J.<BR/>Yeah, you're right. I was considering that little inconvenient theological fact when I wrote that quip. <BR/>Seems Christians should keep that quiet in case people start thinking they can get away with murder, then accept Jesus, and get a go directly to heaven ticket!!LOL<BR/>Maybe thats what Bush was thinking?Sheldonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03743116454273042629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-29760833937868320322007-08-31T23:57:00.000-04:002007-08-31T23:57:00.000-04:00From your perspective, the death penalty only exte...<I>From your perspective, the death penalty only extends their eternity in hell fire for a relatively insignificant period of time.</I><BR/><BR/>Ha, not even that. As I'm sure you know, some loonies sincerely (apparently) believe that you are going to heaven if you accept Jesus (some Mexican chap, I suppose) as your saviour and blah blah. No matter what. I've asked a few of such believers, and they said "yes, that's it, no matter what". Even Hitler? Even Stalin? Even the Pope? Yep...<BR/><BR/>So I guess the little grey box is more justice after all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-50470669998829112442007-08-31T19:31:00.000-04:002007-08-31T19:31:00.000-04:00"I am not sure why anti-cap proponents want to let..."I am not sure why anti-cap proponents want to let really bad people off the hook. Why don't you clue me in."<BR/><BR/>Cal,<BR/>This is only my opinion. First of all, letting "really bad people off the hook" is a straw man. People who do such heinious crimes should be put away forever without possibility of parole.<BR/><BR/>I myself am not against the death penalty as a matter of principle, but as a problem of practice. It may be fair to say that a perpetrator deserves to die. However, I think that the way the our criminal justice system works, there are too many tendencies towards error to risk putting possible innocent people to death. Police investigators, elected district attorneys and prosecutors are under tremendous political pressure to secure convictions. They often are not disinterested pursuers of truth. Crime scene investigators and labs are underfunded, and sometimes sloppy. People on juries are to prone to be manipulated by spurious evidence and bad arguments. All these considerations are on top of the unequal access to justice and application of the death penalty according to race and class.<BR/><BR/>In a totally different line of argument. Being an atheist, I believe that once a person dies, then that person ceases to think or to feel any pain. Being dead is of no consequence once that state of non-being is reached. So putting a murderer to death is actually "letting really bad people off the hook". They are released from having to contemplate their awful deed. It is easier being dead than having the meager existence of spending the rest of one's days in a gray little box.<BR/><BR/>From your perspective, the death penalty only extends their eternity in hell fire for a relatively insignificant period of time. Not very cost efficient if you consider that playing a part in a wrongful conviction might be risking your own eternity in hell. LOLSheldonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03743116454273042629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-2613315613901137532007-08-31T14:13:00.000-04:002007-08-31T14:13:00.000-04:00Cal:Child molestation/murder is one of the two cri...Cal:<BR/><BR/>Child molestation/murder is one of the two crimes I believe call for the death penalty (the other being murder for hire).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-88507301390389427742007-08-31T14:09:00.000-04:002007-08-31T14:09:00.000-04:00Massimo:If you find me overly "sensitive", bear th...Massimo:<BR/><BR/>If you find me overly "sensitive", bear this in mind: as a native Texan living in SoCal for the last fifteen years, I'm damned well tired of having racism on my part assumed. When those stereotypes are passed around in a public forum such as this, with such thin reeds of support, they deserve to be challenged. If that makes me sensitive, so be. I note again that you assert that Texas has an "above-average" problem with racism; I could muster cogent arguments to the point that racism in Texas is on the whole average. (Please do not misunderstand me: all racism, below-, above-, or dead-average, is unacceptable.) <BR/><BR/>You state that it is perfectly fair to characterize a culture by its average behavior. To be perfectly fair, one had ought to mention both sides of the mean which produce the average.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps if you were German instead of Italian you might be more sensitive to this issue. These are issues they still deal with on occasion.<BR/><BR/>Please note, Massimo, that I have no argument at all with your main thesis. There are entirely too many executions in my home state, and, as elsewhere in America, there is certainly a racial disparity. I merely object to the facile assignation of race as the primary cause in the absence of a deeper analysis. In short, I ask for hard data.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for taking the time to reply.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-57327882782678017492007-08-31T13:50:00.000-04:002007-08-31T13:50:00.000-04:00"I wasn't referring to your defense of innocent vi..."I wasn't referring to your defense of innocent victims, I was referring to your ad hominem against opponents of capital punishment- as if they wer hedging their bets in case they might want to kill someone."<BR/><BR/>I am not sure why anti-cap proponents want to let really bad people off the hook. Why don't you clue me in.<BR/><BR/>Last week there were two men (if you want to call them that) from las Cruses on trial for bitting, raping and then ultimately killing one of the two guys 5 month old daughter. The other man was the babies uncle, if I remember correctly.<BR/><BR/>The only defense for innocent victims, is to make sure that under no circumstances whatsoever will these men harm another person . And any person that is so hard hearted as to do these things to sweet precious child will without a doubt, HARM ANOTHER PERSON. <BR/><BR/>Why exactly don't these two deserve to die? (and worse?)<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>calAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-5247914666996363812007-08-31T07:17:00.000-04:002007-08-31T07:17:00.000-04:00Thumpy, Sheldon,gosh, I didn't realize (some) Texa...Thumpy, Sheldon,<BR/><BR/>gosh, I didn't realize (some) Texans' sensibilities were so easy to offend. Obviously, as Sheldon said, I never meant to suggest that *all* Texans are racist. That would be idiotic. However, it seems to me undeniable that Texas (which is made of Texans) has an above-average problem with racism and bigotry.<BR/><BR/>If you detected more of an edge than usual in the tone of my post it is because I didn't use to have prejudices about the South, until I lived there for nine years (including visiting Texas on several occasions).<BR/><BR/>In general, it is perfectly fare to characterize a culture by its average behavior, that's what social scientists do when they conclude that, say, "Italians" think this or that way, or that "teenagers" are more likely to engage in this or that behavior. None of this implies that everyone does it. Indeed, a large number may not do it. However, someone must have elected the recent spite of bloody governors in the Lone Star State, no?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099460671669064269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-53433572971569104442007-08-31T00:40:00.000-04:002007-08-31T00:40:00.000-04:00"Again, no trace of nuance. I guess Austin, or Hou..."Again, no trace of nuance. I guess Austin, or Houston's Seventh Ward, or Oak Cliff don't count. I could go on, mind you. Texas has a diversity of groups and views."<BR/><BR/>Thumpy,<BR/>I will help you out. Lets not forget about Molly Ivins and Jim Hightower (and cowboy hat wearer). And what about Lyndon B. Johnson, a Texan, who signed in landmark civil rights legislation, initiated a "war on poverty", but unfortunately got sidetracked by a real war on Vietnam.<BR/><BR/>Now that I have thought more about it, perhaps Massimo has unfairly over generalized about Texas. Still the fact remains, even if you approve of the death penalty in limited cases, Texas is out of control in the number of executions.<BR/><BR/>So Massimo, what do you have to say for yourself? How about an apology for maligning some of the good people of Texas?<BR/><BR/>People should be judged by the content of their character, not by the style of their head wear, (or the state from which they come or reside).Sheldonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03743116454273042629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-5018880417647514972007-08-31T00:00:00.000-04:002007-08-31T00:00:00.000-04:00"This is an extremely common sense issue and i'm s..."This is an extremely common sense issue and i'm sick and tired of hearing prominant progressive thinkers and figureheads muddle the argument." <BR/><BR/>Justin,<BR/>I may be wrong, without specifics cited by you, but I have a hard time understanding why you think it is progressives that are muddleing the argument. I haven't heard any progressives say that illegal immigration is not a problem. In fact I hear them making some of the same arguments you are making, and they are good ones. I do here them arguing against scapegoating immigrants, and arguing that a solution should be found that is fair to them also. They have come here because of a demand for their labor, and because NAFTA has undercut their domestic economy as well.<BR/><BR/>It is all to convenient for the ownership class to maintain their illegal second class status to keep wages low. The right wing, with their shrill rhetoric that effectively scapegoats illegal immigrants and demands mass deportation is what is muddleing the argument.Sheldonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03743116454273042629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-26832357254254573932007-08-30T17:35:00.000-04:002007-08-30T17:35:00.000-04:00Kudos for Justin. Our liberty is premised on our n...Kudos for Justin. Our liberty is premised on our national sovereignty, and killing our sovereignty through illegal immigration and free trade destroys the structural foundations of being a nation, a nation founded on an imperfect people who work to perfect the system and the people in relation to liberty.<BR/><BR/>Blacks are more likely than whites or Hispanics to be victims of crime.<BR/><BR/>From the Washington Post article about race and crime:<BR/><BR/>"* Blacks are more likely than any other group to be victims of “serious violent crime,” such as rape, assault and robbery.<BR/><BR/>"* Blacks were more than twice as likely as whites to be confronted with a firearm during a crime.<BR/><BR/>"Overall, the new Justice findings jibe with previous studies,” said the Post. <BR/><BR/>"“For example, a review of FBI data from 2004 by the Violence Policy Center, a liberal-leaning group that campaigns for stricter gun control laws, found that blacks accounted for about half of the nation’s murder victims that year.”<BR/><BR/>“Black victimization is a real problem, and it’s often black on black,” said David Harris, a law professor at the University of Toledo who studies crime statistics.<BR/><BR/>“Often”? Correction, Harris. As the Post reports and Justice concedes, in more than nine out of 10 cases, black victims are murdered by fellow blacks. "<BR/><BR/>So these black men being put to death, killed other black men or women more often than not.<BR/><BR/>The more valid question would be to what extent white murderers escaped the death penalty, both in general and comparing white-on-white murders with white-on-black murders and to what extent black on black murderers got the death penalty compared to black on white murderers?<BR/><BR/>That is where you will see whatever prejudicial attitudes come into play.<BR/><BR/>Without that analysis, you won't be able to prove that the justice system is racist. <BR/><BR/>If you want to say that the country has been historically racist and that that accounts for the different rate of committing murder between blacks and whites, so be it.<BR/><BR/>Probably, you can prove that.<BR/><BR/>But you cannot say that the justice system is prejudiced (though I believe against ALL POOR PEOPLE and people of color, yes, it is) based on race without that analysis.Royhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13340418934214284427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-48062472550150651612007-08-30T15:12:00.000-04:002007-08-30T15:12:00.000-04:00I want to clear something up that I don't think an...I want to clear something up that I don't think anyone has mentioned. It's in regards to the whole "xenophobic, anti-immigrant" comment. I've lived in Dallas, Tx for 22 years. In that time, the illegal immigrant population has SKYROCKETED. These undocumented individuals have had a detrimental affect on the area - not because of their ethnic background - but because of the conditions they are subjected to because, essentially, our legal system doesn't apply to them. They are the most impoverished, over-worked group in the area because labor laws, again, don't apply. Being that crime is generally a problem for impoverished communities, this group tends to have at LEAST a noteworthy impact on the crime rates in the area. As anyone that works on a job site - like my father and occationally myself - can tell you, you leave something unattended for even a short amount of time and it WILL be gone. Or, for example, the paint supply store that is unfortunate enough to be located next to the alleyway where illegal workers gather for hire in the morning. Their large semi-truck has been vandalized, the wheels stolen and windows smashed, the establishment itself has been broken into at least 4 times causing thousands of dollars in damage and stolen goods. FYI - this place is located about 2 blocks from the Dallas Police Department.<BR/><BR/>Also, the illegal immigrant population is having adverse affects on local healthcare systems. <BR/><BR/>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14172601/from/RS.5/<BR/><BR/>Such a problem is simply another strain on the already outrageous and damn near defunkt American healthcare system. It's not that doctors should refuse these people, but on the other hand, where is the money going to come from? U.S. Taxplayers? A healthcare system for Non-citizens? That makes little sense. More than likely, it's coming from the middle class, many of whom already can't afford health insurance (my family being one of them).<BR/><BR/>Because of the over-abundance of cheap labor comming from undocumented immigrants, the labor market has all but completely bottomed out. It's nearly impossible to make a living from "blue-collar" work in the area because of it. A stark contrast from even 10-15 years ago.<BR/><BR/>I'm extremely liberal and I'm hugely into the freethinking movement. But, this is one case where the liberals are simply dead wrong. Show me another developed country in the world where individuals are allowed to immigrate whenever they want - as many of them as have the desire and drive to physically make the journey - while not contributing to the federal government, yet still allowed to reap at least some benefits (e.g. free/cheap health care) at the expense of citizens and legal immigrants? It's not about being "xenophobic", although I'm sure you can find some Texans that are. It's not about being "anti-immigrant", that doesn't make much sense since the U.S. is a country of immigrants. It's not about "keeping out the mexicans", because there are plenty of mexicans the immigrate legally every year and good on them. It's about the fact that we have borders and laws that are there for good reasons, and that illegal immigrants are always used as a large group of second-class-citizens that can be exploited by others seeking cheap labor regardless of the human element in the equation. This is an extremely common sense issue and i'm sick and tired of hearing prominant progressive thinkers and figureheads muddle the argument. It would be nice to have no borders and allow everyone automatic citizenship, but it doesn't work like that. Not here, not in Europe, not anywhere.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15164379372670023382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-26439269625075520492007-08-30T13:47:00.000-04:002007-08-30T13:47:00.000-04:00Strike the last line, BTW.Strike the last line, BTW.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-34749347059750258752007-08-30T13:44:00.000-04:002007-08-30T13:44:00.000-04:00Sheldon -- As I made clear, I am objecting to the ...Sheldon -- <BR/><BR/>As I made clear, I am objecting to the insinuation, and not the explicit statement, that all Texans are racist. <BR/><BR/>"So, what's the matter with Texas? According to a recent article by Ed Stoddard and distributed by Reuters, the crucial factors are fundamentalist Christianity, the “Old West” mentality, and a good dose of racism – a lethal mix, as it turns out."<BR/><BR/>I see no trace of nuance in the above extract. All Texans are implicitly lumped together by the question "so what's the matter with Texas?"<BR/><BR/>"Christianity, cowboy attitude and racism welcome you to the Lone Star State – if you are white and god-fearing."<BR/><BR/>Again, no trace of nuance. I guess Austin, or Houston's Seventh Ward, or Oak Cliff don't count. I could go on, mind you. Texas has a diversity of groups and views.<BR/><BR/>While you may find the "cowboy hat" comment suggestive of prejudice, the entire blog strikes me in such a manner, and the main reason for this is that a professor of philosophy should engage in such slipshod thinking. I expect not to see such fallacies as post hoc arguments or anecdotes-as-evidence in a tightly reasoned article, and their presence causes me to question the validity of this posting. (Indeed, your final sentence takes my point exactly: that surface appearances may be terribly misleading, and require more than a facile reading.)<BR/><BR/>I must point out that I'm only taking the time to sound off like this because I've been spoiled by the normally-high standards of Massimo's blog. <BR/><BR/>Cheers to you.<BR/><BR/>Put briefly, it appears to meAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-48070769961786911372007-08-29T23:13:00.000-04:002007-08-29T23:13:00.000-04:00Thumpy,After re-reading Massimo's post, I can't fi...Thumpy,<BR/>After re-reading Massimo's post, I can't find anywhere where he says that all Texans are racist and reactionary. Although I did find the cowboy hat comment stupid and suggestive of prejudice. There may be people on the east coast who have never seen a cow, but highly unlikely in Texas (or my state of Colorado, or the west in general). Out here in the U.S. Southwest the most cowboy hats I see on people are Native Americans, who have been victims of white racsim.<BR/><BR/>Racism is definitely everywhere. New York? One should familiarize themselves with the recent cases of unjustiable police brutality and shooting of African Americans there. Boston area? Research the history of school desegration there where whites had a cow over that. They just aren't that execution happy!<BR/><BR/>http://deathpenaltyinfo.msu.edu/c/states/maps/death-exe.htm<BR/><BR/>Colorado Springs is the center of the evangelical born-again movement in the U.S., and we have cowboys and racisms to. Ditto for New Mexico (Cal's home state), each of which has had only one execution. Remember the book "Whats the matter with Kansas", partly about the religious right introducing creationims into the public schools. ZERO executions! The Dakota state, one of which introduced the most draconian anti-abortion laws. ZERO executions. So the death penalty caused by evangelical Christianity does not hold water. That is based on a rather superficial analysis, but probably better than the article cited.<BR/><BR/>"For instance, in 1997 the national leader for prosecuted hate crimes in America was Lancaster, CA."<BR/><BR/>I think this fact is actually counter to the notion that CA might be more racist than other states. That is because the willingness of officials and the public to prosecute hate crimes is evidence for less tolerance of racism.Sheldonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03743116454273042629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-84194021448411282302007-08-29T22:52:00.000-04:002007-08-29T22:52:00.000-04:00Just something I am digging up from a class I took...Just something I am digging up from a class I took a couple years ago, so forgive me if this is incorrect:<BR/><BR/>Once you take into account income, and maybe some variables like rural/urban, the disparity between white and black crime rates evaporates. It is my impression that foreigners are surprised the way Americans use race as a stand-in for class in this way. Though, in my experience, Europeans do the same thing with Turkish and African immigrants. Of course, the ultimate cause of blacks being disproportionately among the lower classes has its origin in racism.Chris Muirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00008164143878605805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-48483900019064242202007-08-29T22:29:00.000-04:002007-08-29T22:29:00.000-04:00"Is it possible that this disproportion of blacks ..."Is it possible that this disproportion of blacks in prison is in part because of greater criminality among blacks?"<BR/><BR/>Jason,<BR/>The disproportionate number of blacks in jail may indeed be an artifact of a greater rate of criminal behaviour, in fact it certainly is. But that in turn raises the quesion, why is this so?<BR/><BR/>So again, the questions are raised: <BR/><BR/>Does it have anything to do with the historical legacy of slavery, Jim Crow laws, and racsim in the U.S.. <BR/><BR/>Also related, but distinct, does it have anything to do with social economic inequality,(even for poor whites), lack of opportunity, and the U.S. class system?<BR/>I would contend that it does.Sheldonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03743116454273042629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-22138376617033494272007-08-29T13:48:00.000-04:002007-08-29T13:48:00.000-04:00Sheldon,You said "...it is fair to suggest that ra...Sheldon,<BR/><BR/>You said "...it is fair to suggest that racism is relatively stronger in some regions of the country than others", and I think that is true on a general basis. For instance, in 1997 the national leader for prosecuted hate crimes in America was Lancaster, CA. You do not see me generalizing about Californians on that basis; there are many possible reasons for that stat (more vigorous prosecution, more active community involvement, etc) that prevent any sure judgement in this case. Likewise with minority crime statistics, unless one has performed a detailed multivariate analysis, which was unfortunately lacking.<BR/><BR/>While I agree with Massimo's analysis in general, and as stated earlier, typically abjure the death penalty, I still feel he overgeneralizes in his post. Again, I do not deny the shameful fact that my home state has its share of bigoted Christians; I merely object to the insinuation that that is ALL we are. (Although M makes it clear that execution rate is declining, he attributes that, like the original author, to a demographic shift. Certainly native Texans cannot be that enlightened, no?)<BR/><BR/>This attitude is in itself a form of prejudice, and while not nearly so serious as the racism that has resulted in much greater evil, it is still prejudice, and as such it had ought to be expunged.<BR/><BR/>PS -- You can call me what you want, sheldon; I know 14 characters gets annoying to type after a while. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com